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Subscribe to RSSKate Hanni of the Coalition for Airline Passengers talks about a proposal that would allow a "passenger advocate" to be stationed at airports to step in when someone feels their screening may have gone too far.
Two New York lawmakers on Sunday urged the Transportation Security Administration to provide passenger advocates at airports during security screenings.
U.S. Sen. Charles Schumer and state Sen. Michael Gianaris, both Democrats, told Homeland Security Director Janet Napolitano and TSA Administrator John Pistole in a letter that an on-site passenger advocate would help strike the right balance between security and protecting vulnerable travelers.
"I appreciate the TSA's work to keep air passengers safe, but passengers should not be humiliated and degraded during their travels," Gianaris said in a statement accompanying the letter.
The proposal follows recent claims that elderly women were strip searched by security officials at Kennedy Airport, which the TSA denies, saying it doesn't conduct strip searches.
"TSA does not, and has never, conducted strip searches and no strip searches occurred in any of these incidents," the agency wrote Sunday on its blog.
Schumer and Gianaris want a member of the screening crew to be trained as a passenger advocate who could intervene as problems arose. They also asked for an investigation into the women's complaints, which were detailed in the letter.
In one case, Lenore Zimmerman, 85, of Long Beach, N.Y., said TSA agents took her into a private room in late November to remove her back brace for screening after she decided against going through a scanning machine because of her heart defibrillator.
"Zimmerman said she had to raise her blouse and remove her undergarments for a female TSA agent," according to the lawmakers' letter.
The TSA stated that a misunderstanding led to the removal of the woman's back brace, which was mistaken as a money belt. Refresher courses are planned for JFK employees, the TSA stated.
In another recent incident, Ruth Sherman, 88, of Sunrise, Fla., was asked about a visible protrusion from her waist band, which she identified as her colostomy bag.
She was "escorted to another room where two female agents made her lower her pants for an inspection. Sherman raised concerns that the agents would disrupt her colostomy bag, causing pain and potential damage," the letter said.
A third woman, Linda Kallish, of Boynton, Fla., said that after she revealed she was a diabetic with an insulin pump in her leg, she was escorted to a separate room where she was told to remove her pants so the agents could check the pump, the letter said, without saying when that incident took place.
"We truly regret these passengers feel they had a bad screening experience," the TSA said on its website. "Our goal is to provide the highest level of security while ensuring that all passengers are treated with dignity and respect."
The TSA said it in the process of establishing an 800 number dedicated to travelers with disabilities, medical conditions, or those who may require assistance during screening.
"Passengers will be able to call this number prior to flying to get guidance and information about screening, based on their needs," according to the TSA. "Additionally, TSA regularly trains its workforce on how to screen travelers with disabilities or medical conditions and has customer service managers on hand at airports to answer questions and assist passengers."
Under the Schumer-Gianaris proposal, an advocate could be summoned in person by passengers if they feel they were inappropriately searched.
"While the safety and security of our flights must be a top priority, we need to make sure that flying does not become a fear-inducing, degrading, and potentially humiliating experience," Schumer said.
An elderly New York woman says she's planning to sue the Transportation Security Administration after what she said was a humiliating "strip search." NBC's Brian Williams reports.
Information from Reuters and the Associated Press was included in this report.
More on Overhead Bin
- Too old to travel alone? Companies provide escorts
- Another elderly flier claims TSA strip-search at JFK
- Woman, 85: I was strip searched at JFK
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"While the safety and security of our flights must be a top priority, we need to make sure that flying does not become a fear-inducing, degrading, and potentially humiliating experience," Schumer said.
It is already a degrading and humiliating experience, one that I have given up in advance of the fear-inducing part.
Flying is a personal choice, not a birth right guaranteed by the US Constitution.
@longhair
Perhaps you missed this part of the US Constitution?
The 4th amendment:
'The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.'
To pass muster under the Fourth Amendment, detention must be 'reasonable. ' See U.S. v. Montoya de Hernandez, 473 U.S. 531, 542-44 ('85) (analyzing constitutionality of length of traveler's border detention under Fourth Amendment reasonableness standard); Caban, 728 F.2d at 75 (considering whether duration of border detention without a hearing was reasonable).
In the context of a criminal arrest, a detention of longer than 48 hours without a probable cause determination violates the Fourth Amendment as a matter of law in the absence of a demonstrated emergency or other extraordinary circumstance. See County of Riverside v. McLaughlin, 111 S.Ct. 1661, 670 ('91). However, the Supreme Court arrived at this rule by considering the time it takes to complete administrative steps typically incident to arrest. See id.
I am terrified of the TSA. A screener sexually assaulted me, inserting a foreign object inside my body. I complained to my Congressional representatives, and the TSA sent me a letter basically saying, "We're a little bit sorry we raped you with a hand-held metal detector, but it might happen again next time because we have no intention of changing our procedures. It's really nothing you should get all upset about."
We're losing more of our freedoms by the day.
Annapolis, every time I hear your story it makes me nauseous that it could even happen, but then again because this agency gives its knuckle-dragging brutes absolute authority with no responsibility, it's exactly the kind of treatment we can all expect.
Of course, I guess you should be happy they didn't say in their apology, "We're sorry you got upset that you think we raped you. Our officers are trained to rape every American with dignity and respect."
What a pathetic bunch of losers the ENTIRE TSA is.
Longhair - the airline industry is run privately, not by the government. I don't like the idea that although I have the "choice" of which airline to fly with, I DON'T have the choice of going through a potentially ... uncomfortable ... search by a government agency. I've actually flown a LOT in the past few years (visiting family, now that we're spreading apart) and haven't had any problems. Maybe they don't want to harass mothers of toddlers.
You people that want to get on a commercial airliner with no searches need to find another way to travel. I don't want me or my family endangered because people think that they're too good to be searched. You are paving the way for terrorists to be able to do what they want!!
Maybe we should have two linesw and two planes - - one that doesn't want to be strip seaqrched in the name of safety and the other line and plane for those that do. That would solve it. Until then, I 'm not flying unless it's a real emergency!
I'm so tired of people saying that because something is not in the Constitution, I don't have a right to it. The 9th Amendment states: "The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people." That means that naming certain rights in the Constitution does not take away rights that are not named. This is the amendment that the Supreme Court majority used to rule that we have a privacy -- which, along with my right to fly, is also not named in the Constitution.
An airline ticket is a "Contract of Carriage." I am over 18 and have the right to enter into a contract, such as the Contract of Carriage. Looks to me like I have a right to fly.
I also have a right to privacy and freedom from unreasonable search. Seems as though my gov't has suspended those rights thru TSA body searches. Yes, we need to protect against terrorists; everyone has the right to be secure and know that their gov't is protecting them. But the bloated, ineffective agency that is the TSA is not necessarily the right way, nor the only way, to do so. Other countries do not subject their passengers to the same indignities that the American flying public is subject to yet they also fight terrorism on planes. Instead of throwing more money at the TSA, why don't we take those funds and investigate other, better ways of protection?
People don't want to be searched. People do not want to be profiled. So how do we keep safe in the air? or on trains, busses, or taxi's? Terroristswill kill indiscriminately - that's what terror is about.
if i was a terrorist - how about a suicide bomb in a walmart on black friday? or a suicide bomb at the super bowl?
There is no way to protect against all forms of terror.
Sorry but this is not a Fourth Amendment issue. No one is forcing you to submit to being searched. It is simply a requirement for using the service the airlines provide. You have every right to refuse to be searched; you simply forfeit your right to use that service by doing so.
I don't like airport security measures and would like to see them changed but until they are I still have the right to travel by other means, even if it is less convenient.
If you are mad about TSA and how they have to search your luggage or walk through a scanner or metal detector since it takes away your rights then please don't ever try and get on a military installation. There you are subject to search at any time you are on the base. No one was screaming about x-raying luggage before or after 9/11 but they sure were when it came about because of DB Cooper.
If the TSA did actually do this strip search they are wrong and should be dealt with the same with some of the other stories I have heard but your argument has no basis unfortunately your "contract of carriage" has TSA involved with it for in order to use that contract you have to abide by the rules which means TSA checkpoint.
Annapolis
Everytime "Silentdogwood" hears your story they become nauseous....
Everytime I hear your story - I say bs....why not show a copy of the what would be justified lawsuit?
What are we afraid of?...Nothing but fear itself!
If you are mad about TSA and how they have to search your luggage or walk through a scanner or metal detector since it takes away your rights then please don't ever try and get on a military installation.
That kind of talk always makes me laugh. Two years AFTER 9/11, I got on the US military base of Yongsan in Seoul, South Korea, as a civilian with a Canadian guy and wasn't searched at all or even required to show any ID at all. I had just gotten a short haircut and the Katusa waved me and the other guy onto a bus of soldiers returning from their evening romp. The Canadian guy was nervous but I told him we didn't break any laws since they let us on. We wandered around for two or three hours until I called a guy I knew on base who was freaked out that I got on without escort. I took a ride in the car of an officer's wife to get off base and was again never questioned or had any ID checked. After that experience, I no longer scoff at corny Hollywood movie scenes where some spy impersonates his way through security. Oddly enough, however, I get stopped and pulled aside by the TSA every frickin time I fly home through LAX, and they do a spot check on my bags. never find anything illegal, before sending me on my way.
@Christopher Walker - I've been on a military installation a number of times. It was easier getting on there than getting thru the airport. And a military installation is a different location, with a different purpose, than an airport -- it's for the military, not civilians, so a military installatin is not exactly an apples to apples comparison with an airport.
The reason that the TSA is involved in a contract of carriage is because of government dictates, not because of the airline's decision. I find it interesting that many people who are against gov't regulations in some areas (e.g.,banking, EPA, OSHA) are perfectly okay with the gov't telling a private industry what to do in this case. Again, there are other ways to do it, and we're throwing good money after bad trying to fix a system and agency that is broken instead of finding a better way to do it.
If you fly you have no reason to complain. If everybody would just do like I did and quit flying they would change there attitude really fast.
I would rather have 10 or 12 pissed off old women than have a plane full of innocent people dying because of a bomb tsa missed
RDG6 The terrorist WON on 9/12 the day after they hit the towers. Every American lost a little that day and more every day since. TSA screening will take your water, electronics, privacy and dignity but they won't prevent a determined terrorist. I admit the catch a bunch of morons bringing guns, knives and other stupid stuff to the airport but the money and efforts would be better spent in other ways. The only GOOD that TSA has done is increase sales behind the security lines since we can't bring more than a sip or two of fluid through security. It's sad yet funny every time I hear about TSA smashing a colostomy bag.
Yes, flying is a birthright guaranteed by the Constitution, by statute, by case law, and when you buy a ticket, a contractual right as well. Not convinced? Here is the law:
"A citizen of the United States has a public right of transit through the navigable airspace." 49 US Code-Section 40103 (2)
Concerning searches, can government or business require you to submit to an illegal act (sexual assault/enhanced pat down against your will ) as a condition to a lawful contract? Of course not!
Quit flying? Why should I or anyone else give up or right to fly (or any other right, for that matter) because some government bureaucrat ignores the Constitution that he is sworn to uphold?
And yes, this is a 4th amendment issue. The search provision in airlines's contract of carriage is there because Federal law and regulations mandate that the airlines put that language there. Government has no authority to search you on their own, so they do an end run arround the Constitution and then say, see, you agreed to this search in your contract!
We are a capitalist society-- vote with your dollars. If you hate the TSA, then don't fly. When all the airlines start going bankrupt (something already starting anyway, hence the sudden explosion of "hidden" fees to make up the lost revenue) they'll lobby congress for a change of procedure. Until then, ride the bus, drive, take a train-- whatever the case may be. For international flights, well, you can take a boat I suppose, but that's not really feasible in all cases-- but even if the US airlines retained that demographic and were down to handling only international flights, you can bet your ass they'd be crying to congress all the same. It's a choice you can make. I have made my choice (but then, I don't need to fly for work, so it's easier for me to make that decision).
In any case, TSA is a bloated, redundant bureaucracy created out of fear-- we had airport security before the TSA and we can have airport security without the TSA. There's absolutely no reason that a federal agency need be in place to handle the security of a private industry-- especially not one as bloated as the TSA, which recent congressional investigations have determined is grossly incompetent with the management of its funds.
Name one bomb they've found. Oh, that's right. They haven't. Underwear bomber? Caught by fellow passengers after his bomb failed to explode (and burned the sh** out of his nether regions). Shoe bomber? Caught by the airline's flight attendant after failing to ignite his explosive. Go ahead, google it. Find one example where they have actually caught the bomb before it was on the plane. G'head. I'll wait.
WMG... actually American is the last of the BIG airlines to file for BK. The others may be crying on one side of the balance sheets but they sure seem to have cash for the CEO and stock holders.
I agree TSA is just another bureaucracy that needs trimmed completely. They are not just "bloated", they are not necessary in the form they exist today.
Lmao on those commenting on constitutional amendments and their application to TSA searches. Seems that the constitution also includes a clause that relates to the "general welfare" of the US populace. Seems that promoting the general welfare of the people means that the personal liberties of the fourth amendment take second place to the "general welfare" clause.
The simplest solution to eliminating hands on invasive search requirements is for everyone to sign a release absolving all parties of any liability relating to travel. Don't want to sign the release? Find another alternative travel option
so far all terrorist attacks have been males between the ages of 19-28, 99.9% middle eastern and followers of Islam; 85 year old grandmothers fit no profile; however to be political correct we must show we do not target any one group; in plain words we have lost our ever loving minds, our freedoms, our American way of life and our protection under the Constitution; thanks Congress, you are the ones that gave Homeland security full and complete immunity .
Please tell all of us how many 'bombs' the TSA has taken into custody?
My opinion is the total sum of bomb confiscations is ZERO.
Dog, you're correct.
WMG, TSA is already at bus stations/train stations and road checks in Tennessee. It has been planned to be nation wide for quite awhile
american, The Constitution was formed, among other purposes, to make the people's liberties secure- secure not only from foreign attack but also from oppression by our own government. It sets specific limits upon the national government and upon the States, and reserved to the people all powers that they did not grant the federal or states. The Ninth Amendment declares: "The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people."
What you do not seem to know is that the wording of the Presidential Oath was already established in the Constitution in Article II, Section 1, Clause 10. The requirement for all other Federal and State Civil officers to give their solemn and binding Oath is established in Article VI, Section 1, Clause 4. They are BOUND by their Oath to support the Constitution, and should they abrogate their Oath by their acts or inaction, are subject to charges of impeachment and censure.
When I say we can fire them have them arrested and prosecute them it is true. We can and should replace them right now.
TSA agents also take an Oath to "support and defend the US Constitution" before the duties of their assigned job. Actually everyone from whom an Oath is a requirement of the job takes an Oath to support and defend the Constitution and not an individual leader, ruler, office, or entity before anything else required of their position/office.
Not doing so means they are not meeting the requirements of the job, or are assisting domestic enemies in the takeover of our nation. There is no third choice.
You did notice that all of the three branches of our government that went against our Constitution or did not defend it from those who actively went against it can be fired (impeached) and prosecuted?
@american(bunchofnumbers) - while I'll admit Wikipedia is not the be all and end all of references, here's their take on your general welfare clause and whether it trumps anything:
Looks as if Thomas Jefferson disagrees with you. But since Wikipedia isn't the be all and end all for reference, let me know if there's another "general welfare" clause that trumps the Bill of Rights. Until then, I'll believe I do have rights that my gov't is stomping on.
And @WMG-21 -- I agree with much of what you said except for the "if you don't like it, don't fly" option. You're absolutely right that if you don't have to fly for work, it's a lot easier to make that decision. I've given up flying for personal trips -- I drive or take the bus or train. But when my capitalist boss says that I have to be in CA in the morning for a meeting, and our capitalist society isn't giving me a lot of alternative employment opportunities, then like it or not, it's off to the airport and the dreaded TSA fun-fest.
(sorry about the big type - system did that, not me. Sorry!)
"You people that want to get on a commercial airliner with no searches need to find another way to travel. I don't want me or my family endangered because people think that they're too good to be searched. You are paving the way for terrorists to be able to do what they want!!"
Yes, RDG6-- I wholeheartedly agree. I would also say that those who want to get on a highway and drive over 20 mph need to find another way to travel. I don't want me or my family endangered because people think that they're too good to drive that slow.
Also, I would like to say those of you who want to leave your homes and walk down a public street without a thorough body cavity search need to be happy staying at home. I don't want me or my family endangered because people think that they're too good to be searched!
We used to call your perspective cowardice. What's changed?
Schumer and Gianaris want a member of the screening crew to be trained as a passenger advocate who could intervene as problems arose.
No. Any passenger advocate must be an individual who answers to an authority outside the TSA.
I am so sick of people saying we should all just quit flying. For many of us, this is not an option. I work in Budapest (I couldn't find a job in the USA), so I regularly have to submit to these searches.
At the Orlando airport, I had to wait for one hour in a security line to *leave* the airport, which didn't make any sense at all. I complained loudly, and could see everyone else backing away from me, afraid to speak up for themselves. I understand metal detectors to get on a plane, but why do I have to submit to a search to leave the airport? I had already been through immigration and customs (who also opened my bag). I have not flown through the Orlando Airport since this incident (June 2010), I now fly to Tampa instead. BTW- never get in the "experienced traveler" lines at the Orlando Airport (MCO)- they are the ones with the full body scanners, and they take twice the time as the metal detector lines.
I don't think the body scanners are necessary or that they make us any safer. If someone is really intent on blowing up an airplane, they will find a way. Besides, what's next? Body cavity searches? Where do we draw the line?
First - we all know that these searches are a politically correct answer to just searching the folks who fit the terrorist profile. Since we have not had 1 lady blow up a plane, and certainly no one over 70, there is no reason on earth except for liberal stupidity to be searching these folks at all. God forbid we insult an Arab or someone who looks like an Arab.
As for the idiot democrat calling for an advocate, how about we just teach these idiots who work for us to do their job appropriately? Do we not already have THOUSANDS of supervisors being paid to do their damn jobs?
I would love to see a class action law suit directed at the TSA and have them put in their place, as they clearly have no justification for these idiotic searches.
@Longhair
Well, the only birthright guaranteed in the constitution is citizenship.
The right to be secure in your possessions IS certainly mentioned in the bill of rights, though... and while flying wasn't invented until over 100 years after the constitution and bill of rights was written, I'm pretty-sure it's covered by a document predating the constitution... you know - the one that mentions "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" ?
Still, I have to wonder why so many people trust their lives to companies too stupid to put locks on the cockpit doors until after 9/11 happened.
Saxon,
This may be a case where we can thank the ACLU. They have fought long and hard against profiling.
The TSA has proven time and time and time again that they are a danger to our Citizens.
Mr. Obama, dissolve the TSA now!!! Its the only solution, Dissolve the TSA and arrest the leaders of the TSA.
And thats my opinion.
I am amazed so many naive Americans defend the TSA's search and invasion of privacy on the ground that travelling by airline is not a Constitutional right and if any one object, they don't have to fly in a commercial airline.
Reduced to its basic, the argument is the same as 'Love America or leave.'
Finally, America is exiting Afghanistan, Iraq, Yemen and Pakistan. Since America has killed Osama Bin Laden and destroyed his terrorist organization and defeated the Talibans, there should be no justification for TSA's existence. No European or Asian airports impose the extensive and intensive body searches as America's TSA. The real mission of the TSA is now in question. It is become apparent that the purpose of TSA is the forced subjugation of Americans at the feet of Big Government.
I thought the
,
, and
was the rationalization behind the creation of the TSA.
It's not the strip-searching or any other particular method that bugs me. It's the fact that they're all incredibly time-consuming and ineffective that really pisses me off.
Continue doing this long enough, and eventually a bunch of terrorists will show up at the security line with large amounts of explosives. They won't need to get past security to do catastrophic damage.
Security screenings are called a 'deterrent' for a reason. They are designed to deter attempts in the first place, because it's not possible to stop and search every individual to a great degree. They function to discourage potential violence and force terrorists to go to 'extreme measures' in order to smuggle a bomb that would increase the chances of failure or exposure, like the underwear bomb.
The fact that they haven't caught anyone, and the only people to get through were forced to go to such extraordinary measures that their bombs failed is a testament to its effectiveness, not its failure.
Shuklack,
Screenings keep honest people honest. It's like locking your door. The TSA hasn't found a single bomb. Let's not forget that they missed 2 bombs. The underwear bomber and the shoe bomber. The underwear bomber was inept. The shoe bomber would have succeeded if not for the vigilant passengers. That's right. All these security screenings, all these armed pilots, all these air marshals, and all this money completely failed to stop a terrorist from blowing up a plane. It was ordinary people who knew something was wrong.
Where to even start with you people...
boo hoo to all of you that are a little inconvenienced waiting in line to go on your vacation. It breaks my heart to know your fun might be deterred a bit.
To those of you that want to profile: I have an Indian-American friend that is 6'2" and has a goatee and greenish eyes. He was born in the United States. By all rights he would set off warnings. BUT he's American and he's of Indian descent. Think it's fair to search him any more than granny?
I fly every week and so do most of the people I know. In the last few years I have been in and out of most of the airports in the US and I have NEVER encountered a TSA agent that has done anything more egregious than be surly and argumentative which they are in droves. So forgive me if I find your tales of woe difficult to swallow.
I realize this is America and we a nation of narcissists which believes every rule should revolve around us personally, but how about following the rules? Tell the agent before hand if you have a medical device that may cause issues. OF COURSE they will need to see it. Stating you have it does not automatically give you a free pass. Don't try to walk through security in your boots with the six inch heels your jewelry, your jacket, scarf, hat and hand bag. Of course you'll be stopped. Take your laptop out of the bag. Get your children prepared before getting to security. Leave things home that may cause issues. And for the love of heaven read up on the rules.
Because you know what? I'm behind you and I see the crap you are trying to get on to the plane.
Grow up. It's not always about YOU.
As to you people who don't believe the TSA has ever caught a bomb or any other device, you don't fly enough. They catch things all of the time.
To : trust_verify
Thank you very much for your post #158.2 -
Enough said.
it is simple, do not cause the rest of us to be inconvenienced; if you have any medical device, do not fly, if you have infants in diapers do not fly, if you need assistance in walking or boarding a plane do not fly, if you have had a hip, knee, shoulder, implant do not fly, if you are a diabetic do not fly, flying is only for the healthy, all you other people do not leave your homes, you are not worthy enough to take advantage of airline travel. ( that should cut the airline revenue about 60%, then maybe they may do something about the crazy TSA)
Trust____________Verify,
I guess you haven't heard. The Fourth Amendment was repealed by Dubya. The fear created by 9/11 made a great excuse.
Easy solution to the problem..... Get rid of TSA.... and all passengers be required to sign a waiver that if they get blown up or hijacked, their estate will not hold the airline, or government responsible and they will not expect law enforcement or military to risk their lives to rescue their sorry arses. And everyone is allowed to carry a concealed weapon for their personel protection.
As to the comments of "Contract of Carrier" - yes you bought your ticket with the airline, but the airline does not own the airport and has to agree to do what the Airport Authority requires to get 'gating" access, the airline can not fly without government approval and part of that approval is that passengers and baggage are required to be screened.
But the next attack would be at some mall during the Christmas shopping season and you would all be on here crying about it was the government's fault that the malls didn't screen people or packages.
As to searching babies or the elderly, your damn right..as you can hide alot of explosives in a "smelly diaper".
I'm with you Al, the moment the terrorists figure out a way to spread their evil everyone will be saying how come you didn't protect us government/TSA?!!
@ Fatcat.......you need to wake up there sweetie... just because we got "those" bad guys DOES NOT MEAN more are not being breed as I type!!!
As for anyone who thinks OLD PEOPLE are innocent? Talk to my girlfriend who's grandparents got talked into a "free" trip to Mexico, had no idea that the new suit cases that the "company" gave them were loaded in the lining!!! One was with money the other with powder! How many times do the elderly fall for scams? Can you see it now... your grandmother given a doll thinking it will be a great gift to her granddaughter and surprise...its a bomb to take on the plane.
Nope TSA (or something like them) is NEEDED in the most basic places. I think that the people that died on 9/11 was a tragic tragic thing, but....to sue the government and get millions of dollars from terriost attacks is wrong. We the people were not responsible for that, the government (there is no proof) was not responsible for that so why did we have to pay for it? An once of PRE-causion is warrented!
Sooooo those that are yelling about being searched need to pipe down and respect ALL of our rights, we know you have them too but so do we. The right not to fall out of the sky!
I really don't understand those of you that think flying on a PRIVATE airline is your "right". You have the Right to Free Speech, the Right to Bear Arms, and the Right to a Fair Trial, but you don't have the "right" fly in a plane. That entire argument is nothing more than a bunch of selfish peole that think they are owed something. No one is stopping us from traveling by train, car, plane, and even a hang glider if you want to. But it's not your "right" just because you choose to have a job where you need fly somewhere to be efficient or go spend time with family.
The TSA and the screenings are a joke. With the TSA, we are no more secure today than we were in 2000. If the procedures that were in place in 2000 had been followed, not a single airplane would have been hijacked.
If someone was truly intent on utilizing an airplane as a method of destroying a building, they will be able to get one. Groping several thousand passengers every day will not stop a terrorist from getting a bomb on a plane.
Also, if the TSA is doing such a great above board job, why don't they want you recording them doing their job ?
@ Al, Youareabully, et al.
"If a nation values anything more than freedom, it will lose its freedom; and the irony of it is that if it is comfort or money that it values more, it will lose that too." -- Somerset Maugham
"The trade-off between freedom and security, so often proposed so seductively, very often leads to the loss of both." -- Christopher Hitchens
"The land of the free will cease to be when it's no longer the home of the brave."-- Rick Gaber
"Patrick Henry did not say, 'Give me absolute safety or give me death.' " -- John Stossel
"A nation which can prefer disgrace to danger is prepared for a master, and deserves one!" -- Alexander Hamilton
"In the end, more than they wanted freedom, they wanted security. They wanted a comfortable life, and they lost it all -- security, comfort, and freedom. When ... the freedom they wished for was freedom from responsibility, then Athens ceased to be free." -- Sir Edward Gibbon
"The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life." -- Teddy Roosevelt
"We've witnessed a fire sale of American liberties at bargain basement prices, in return for the false promise of more security... The America being designed right now won't resemble the America we've been defending... The danger isn't that Big Brother may storm the castle gates. The danger is that Americans don't realize that he is already inside the castle walls." -- Wayne LaPierre
“I believe that liberty is the only genuinely valuable thing that men have invented, at least in the field of government, in a thousand years. I believe that it is better to be free than to be not free, even when the former is dangerous and the latter safe. I believe that the finest qualities of man can flourish only in free air – that progress made under the shadow of the policeman’s club is false progress, and of no permanent value. I believe that any man who takes the liberty of another into his keeping is bound to become a tyrant, and that any man who yields up his liberty, in however slight the measure, is bound to become a slave.” -- H. L. Mencken
"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." – Thomas Jefferson
"When government does more than guard against the initiation of force, inevitably it becomes a means of theft and bamboozlement." -- Donald J. Boudreaux
"The people never give up their liberty but under some delusion." -- Edmund Burke, 1784
"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by an endless series of hobgoblins." -- H.L. Mencken
"The problem isn't the abuse of power; it's the power to abuse." -- Michael Cloud
"Concentrated power is not rendered harmless by the good intentions of those who create it." -- Dr. Milton Friedman
"When your response to everything that is wrong with the world is to say, 'there ought to be a law,' you are saying that you hold freedom very cheap." -- Dr. Thomas Sowell
"I believe there are more instances of the abridgement of freedoms of the people by gradual and silent encroachment of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." -- James Madison
"Give government the weapons to fight your enemy and it will use them against you." -- Harry Browne
"Any time you give power to government, it will be abused, it will be enlarged, it will be used in ways you never intended." – Harry Browne
History, it seems, is a critical judge of your brand of cowardice. --WMG
My family will not fly as long as this security crap is in place.
End the police state, all over the world. This crap has spread everywhere in the west. How often do you need to hear it?
The airlines called in - they say they'll try to survive without you and your family flying...
Im not the only family choosing such a stance. And i would say the last few profit reports coming would say they wont survive at all. The airline industry is on the verge of collapse again. More talk of mergers, etc.
We can all find another mode of transport. Because I, and millions more like me, wont support a system that invades our privacy and treats us like a prisoner in a prison.
American Airlines would probably have liked a few more ticket sales.
Your tax money will make them feel better I'm sure.
Anyone notice that American Airlines filed for bankruptcy?
Maybe folks don't want the private parts patted, and they don't like the idea that this TSA gambit is just to 'soften the public' so when the big searches commence we won't be as reluctant.
This is the 'soften them up' stage hmmmm ?
Freedom, it is up to us, the people to change this. Too many times the "lesser of two evils" voted in, and too many times party lines were followed instead of requiring someone better suited for the job.
We got what we deserved for letting those in our government tell us what to do, how to vote, who to vote for.
But we can fire the domestic enemies within our government (read my post a couple above this one), prosecute them.
This is what we need before the replacements will take the American people seriously about that we require them to represent the best for America and Americans, not foreign nations like 10 of the 12 supercommittee did (rubbing our nose in it since they knew we were all watching); or H. Clinton giving our money to assist Palestinians who had their homes destroyed by national disasters after denying American citizens the day before who had homes destroyed by natural disaster; and so many more actions benefitting foreign nations, banks, big pharma, mega corps not even based in the USA, etc.
It is time
It is a Fourth Ammendment issue, or more specifically, a violation of the Fourth Amendment. We are living more and more in a police state. While creeping in bit by bit, it became a glaring reality in the aftermath of 9/11. Their will always be one more terrorist to kill or capture, and now we can detain and/or assassinate Americans anywhere anytime, for any length of time. Obama presently wields more power to detain citizens that Stalin or Hitler did.
To the poster above who says the airlines won't miss the other poster who refuses to fly, he/she is correct - the airlines won't miss 1 lost passenger's revenue.
But, the airlines and the entire leisure industry would be brought to its knees in less than about 90 days, at most, if leisure travelers stopped using the airlines as a mode of transportation. If you are foolish enough to believe that most carriers are in good shape fiscally, well, American Airlines ought to show you that airlines' finances are tenuous at best (and AA was thought to be doing well enough that they would make it). Airlines are extremely dependent on every last dollar of revenue, which is why they overbook and (hope) that statistcal overbooking is correct. They are in such bad shape they need to fly more passengers than their planes can carry. That is a fact that has gone on for decades.
Airlines have such incredibly high fixed costs they need every last customer they can get. They can only cut fares just so far for so long before their fixed costs and debt service can't be serviced by their cash flow, let alone remain viable as business models or turn a profit. Their lines of credit would be maxed out, their vendors would stop supplying them, and their leases and debt payment structures would financially strangle them alive. Furthermore, assets such a gate leases would lose value as no other airline would want them, since all airlines would be in trouble. It would cause a "leverage-in-reverse" implosion among the industry, as both their income statements and balance sheets would be eroded at the same time and accelerate each other's erosion as well.
Again, I give them about 90 days, at most. After that, the airlines, the almost airports and the TSA facists who strip search and reverse-profile old ladies, colostomy wearers, and diabetics could not survive in their present form.
"Staycationers" could put the industry out of business in less than a single business quarter. And probably restore a fair amount of civil liberties in the process when all the airlines' lobbying groups got a lot of that garbage rescinded.
It's actually the epitomy of American's aspiration to laziness - we could accomplish so much by doing so little.
I say again.... let's get rid of the TSA and all passengers sign a waiver that their family will not sue the airline if they get blown up and they will not want law enforcement or military to attempt to rescue them if they get taken hostage.
Another words, you agree to fly at your own risk.
tomorrowsnews banned, multiple of thenewstoday, also banned.
Don't register another account on a suspension.
If we have hired inept or incompetent TSA officials they should disciplined or fired. Why should we incur more cost to create another position to insure they don't abuse their o\power or authority. When it comes to government,money in no object and accountability is an unknown.
My understanding is that the turnover rate for TSA officials is high already because the hours suck, the pay is crap, and there is a lot of pressure to accurately detect weapons etc (naturally). Again, my understanding is that the TSA reps are constantly being tested on their ability to detect forbidden items in luggage through the period insertion of forbidden images into the xray image. (My uncle was one for a bit, as part of some "light work" during retirement.... not so light in the end. Also had a friend who works as a TSA official.)
Point being, we may not actually have to worry about them being fired, because they often quit anyway.
And because you said this they'll do it? Tell mewhen you've come back to the real world.
CatWhisperer the problem is that as more and more turnover happens the less qualified (???) TSA applicants get hired on. Those lessor applicants are the ones who are on their ego trips.
from the article "The proposal follows recent claims that elderly women were strip searched by security officials "
All airplane hijackings have been committed by Muslim men. If the search extends beyond that demographic, it's only fair that a few elderly women are padded down for the thousands of men that are suspected and padded down. If possible, these men will be the first to stop a hijacking and the elderly women the last.
If I ran a terrorist organization, I'd pay elderly women large sums of money to bring in the explosives since they are the least likely to be searched.
Elderly women have stretched vaginas that can hold a lot of exposives. Elderly women don't have much to live for, so they are the prime terrorist suspects and should be inspected entirely.
If one is deemed inept, the manager above them should also be held accountable.
wendywiesenthal-1, What a 'mealy-mouthed' way of making an assumption that no elderly might have anything to live for.
wendywiesenthal-1 must not have much of a life to think that if you're elderly your life is over.
fgh & Lady Cat: google the term "sarcasm" you might learn something.
wendyweisenthal-1... LOL, that was good.
Translation:
"Passengers will be advised on how to make it easier to get groped and humiliated."
Does TSA "screening" constitute "prostitution?" Customers are PAYING someone to sexually accost them.
And really, what good does making such a call do when you're right in the middle of being abused? It does nothing to stop the daily egregious abuse meted out by these mental midgets. We will continue to be groped, abused, and yes, strip searched. But golly gee you can make a phone call about it. You can also keep on your shoes. Someday. In the future.
When you're standing there shoeless, half naked, with an "officer's" hands in your pants, and your phone is inaccessible in your bag on the x-ray belt, what kind of good will this do? None.
You seem to be obsessed with sexual undertones. Groped?? And when were you ever half-naked in a security line? I used to get a pat down EvERY flight because of a metal implant. Big deal. Never had a problem. Now the new machines allow me to go through without one. Aren't there always same sex officers?
You don't get it. The big deal is we're losing our Constitutional rights. The rights most of our forefathers fought and died for! That's the big deal.
That may be true but not in this instance. The Constitution doesn't garentee us unencumbered access to fast transportation. The airlines are a service that, like any service, comes with a price. Part of that price is that we agree to rules that I would agree have become ridiculously excessive. But ridiculously excessive rules is what happens anytime you get government involved so it should come at no surprise. Sucks?- Yes; Violation of Constitutional rights? -No
HSaver
you have a constitutional right to fly without ahering to guidelines....
you don't even have a constitutional right not to enter a 7-11 without shoes..
In reply to Malby...hmmm....
When you are in line....you are told to: please remove your coat, your jacket, your other jacket, your sweater, your shoes, and then told "I need to "pat you down" inside your clothing"..... Yup, I think "half naked" is sometimes very accurate. I personally have been subjected to a very disgusting groping. It doesnt matter if it was by the same sex. Do you think that made it "ok"?? Sounds like you work for the TSA......
bamr, you also knew before you purchased the ticket and entered the airport they they search people in this manner and you decided to put yourself through it anyway. What do you have to complain about. By buying the ticket and using their service you are telling them that it is alright.
BackCountry... what part of the 4th amendment don't you get? Secure in my person and effects unless they have a warrant. Was there an unsolved crime committed by someone fitting the description of the THOUSANDS of passengers passing through the security? I understand the need to pass through a metal detector and the x-ray for all the baggage.... NOT HAPPY about it but that seems reasonable. Funny thing though is I can carry an arrow, ceramic knife, shoe laces, roll of coins, sun glasses and the list goes on. ALL of those can be used as DEADLY weapons. Maybe I should keep quiet or next they are going to hand us all paper suits and make us fly naked under them, standing up nut to butt like cattle so they can make even more money and we'll ALL feel safer?
YES it is groping when they physically TOUCH me, even through clothing. In OHIO touching a person under 13 in that manor is RAPE. Rent-a-cop are bad enough. TSA is far worse as they are REQUIRED to interface with the public and directed to make physical contact. Not ALL TSA are bad apples but it only takes ONE.
Actually, the Constitution and US statute do guarantee unencumbered access to fast transportation. Not convinced? Here is the law:
"A citizen of the United States has a public right of transit through the navigable airspace." 49 US Code-Section 40103 (2).
Neither the government or private company can lawfully require you to submit to an illegal act, such as being groped, as a condition to a lawful contract. They do it anyway, which is a violation of constituitional rights.
What will take precedence....having the government be concerned about meeting the constitutional requirements of looking after the "general welfare" of its citizens as a whole or thinking that one individuals "rights" take precedence over the whole?
Since the "general welfare" clause deals with taxation (and they're sure as he!! not looking after the "general welfare" of the majority of American citizens when it comes to taxation), then I think the Bill of Rights trumps a taxation clause. Besides, whether you want to think so or not, it is not that one individual's rights that are being denied. Count up how many body searches are done in airports across the country on any given day and then tell me that only one individual's rights are being denied.
The fact is that there are other ways of providing security for all, of providing for "the general welfare" when it comes to air travel without denying anyone's rights to the extent currently being done. Behavioral observation/profiling is an approach that is not employed yet should be done. Or take some of the money spent on more scanners and more agents to search elderly persons' adult diapers and give those funds to intelligence agencies so they can uncover and dismantle plots before they occur.
Let's face it -- the terrorists who flew planes into the WTC and Pentagon were smart enough to think of flying planes into a building as an act of terror. Terrorists have been smart enough to think of hiding explosives in shoes and hiding explosive components in clothing with the intent of mixing them in flight. Even if unsuccessful, those attempts showed a level of diabolical intelligence. Heck, Olajide Noibi was smart enough to use other people's boarding passes to get free flights - right under the TSA's nose. I'm not intending to offend anyone's work ethic or job, but I look at the average TSA agent and wonder who's smarter. And I certainly don't feel safer.
You know people, you do not have to fly. It is your choice to do so. Not the airlines and airports. You can drive, net meeting, Amtrak, or some other modes of transportation. We do not have any right to ride airplanes, it is all a personal choice. This lady was not strip searched. The airport has watched video of what actually happened. If she had been strip searched, you would see many more politicians spouting off about this. This is nothing compared to Israel. How many plane hijackings or bombs in the last few decades in Israel? That's right, NONE!!!! Are you all naive enough to think that sooner or later, people that want to hijack or bomb the planes will not get around to using old and/or ill people? They are already using women in Iraq and Afghanistan because we were only looking for men. Sooner or later, they will start using people that know their lives are about over due to age or illness and looking for money to give to their relatives. I have flown plenty of times and realize it is my choice and no one else's. I am searched, go through scanners, or whatever else they throw at me. If I do not like it, I will find another way to get to my destination or not go at all. I can tell you, that there will be another issue with a flight with someone getting on that has bad intentions. If you want to see security now, wait until this happens. You are giving the terrorists, exactly what they want. You are playing right in to their hands.
So clearly you will not object when a TSA official is placed at every train station, every parking lot, every subway station, and every bus terminal right? I mean it is your choice to drive your own vehicle, ride the bus, take the train, or go on the subway. You could just walk to your destination. And don't think I'm being stupid here, the TSA has the authority to do what they do for any form of transportation.
I disagree. We are spending all this money, inconveniencing millions of people, and for what? The TSA has caught zero terrorists. And yet two terrorists have successfully boarded flights. These security methods are security theater. They make people with irrational paranoia feel better about flying while doing nothing to stop terrorists.
So apart from failing to stop terrorists what else have we got? Countless claims of theft from luggage, 200 arrests and 500 terminations of TSA agents for that theft, a whole lot of horror stories of groping, strip searches etc, and an $8 billion per year price tag. Do you really think it's worth it?
@trust_verify
If this were a legitimate 4th Amendment issue some group would have used that argument already. Sorry dude but I have a pretty firm grasp on Constitutional rights which is something that most of the people who whine about them don't have.
Purchasing a plane ticket is the equivalentof entering into a contract with the airline. As such you are AGREEING to the terms of that contract which in this case includes submitting to security procedures
@dog-1539242
Sorry but you are misinterpreting the law. No where does it state that you have, as I said, "unencumbered" access. Only that, as a citizen of the US, you have a right to use the sovereign airspace.
The misinterpretation is yours. Something that interferes with, or encumbers, the exercise of a right is termed a nuisance: Here is the definition:
nuisance - (law) a broad legal concept including anything that disturbs
the reasonable use of your property or endangers life and health or is offensive.
Sure sounds like the TSA, doesn't it?
BTW, Purchasing a ticket is not the equivalent of entering into a contract, it is a contract. However, people can only contract to do lawful activity. Can any contract lawfully require you to submit to an illegal act against your will to receive a lawful service? Of course not! That's the whole point of the 4th amendment. Reasonable searches, yes; unreasonable, no.
What is "unreasonable"? Something immoderate, excessive, lacking in reason or judgement, unfair, absurd, preposterous, unwarranted, unjust, inordinate, undue, irrational, arbitrary, or capricious. In other words, current TSA policies and practices.
As for having a grip on Constitutional rights, I am not so sure of that. Yes, people whine when their rights are abused, and people know what their rights are. The abusers, and their sycophants, respond by saying things like, "You don't have any right to unencumbered access..." and "You must submit to security procedures!" no matter how unreasonable.
If the Senators really want to do something to reign in the TSA, they should sign on as co-sponsors of Senator Blackburn's bill which would strip (ha!) the TSA screeners of their pseudo-cop uniforms, tin badges, & the word 'officer'. Small step, I know, but getting the screeners out of these costumes would likely go a long way in reinforcing to the screeners themselves they are not 'law enforcement'. Further, for the type of position described in this article to succeed, the incumbent would have to be totally independent of the agency in question AND have the power to stop the type of abuses described in the article-who sees the TSA agreeing to that? Existing policy states screeners cannot do what they went ahead & did anyway. Existing policy states screeners shall not steal from passengers, but that hasn't stopped how many thousands of them from doing just that? Passengers complain about the behavior of screeners every day to the TSA itself to no avail because the TSA cannot & will not police itself-that is Congress' job, which they have also failed to do.
If the Senators' really want to protect passengers, they need to reign in the TSA & a good message to send is the passage of Sen. Blackburn's bill ASAP.
Congress isn't interested in reigning anything in, just watch their votes, not their sound bites.
The National Authorization Act passing 93-7 last week is all you need to know about these anti-freedom people drawing paychecks in the Senate.
I hope T.S.A. gets reined in before they enlarge their 'services'.
The National Association of Airline Passengers would like to see more than a taxpayer advocate. There needs to be a civilian review board at each airport to hear complaints against screeners who go too far. Screeners need to be licensed by the state in which they operate, be required to post a fidelity bond against theft and surety bond to guarantee good conduct (Most states require this of security guards) and carry insurance against breakage of passenger and airport property (TSA agents are adept at breaking laptops.)
Right now TSA investigates their own complaints, and takes a "see no evil, hear no evil, and see no evil attitude towards complaints of misconduct. I have been told by more than one congressional staffer that TSA is the only agency that does not respond when a congressman's office writes to them.
What about security? TSA agents have been caught taking bribes to look the other way when drugs go through security. They routinely "lose" uniforms, badges, and security keys. They steal from passengers luggage and wallets. They sexually assault passengers with the enhanced pat-down. They operate unlicensed and uninspected xrays at airports without regard to state standards or inspections.
TSA agents seem completely bewildered by commonplace medical conditions and prosthesis. They are so focused on "Terrorism" that they have forgotten that the billions of passengers that have passed through their screening are nothing more than normal passengers, and no threat to anyone. TSA needs to reform, but if not, congress should not wait any longer, and reform or abolish the agency themselves.
In other words we should take an incredibly ineffective and intrusive system and spend three times as much money on it as we do now. I'm sorry; did I say, "spend"? What I should have said was "waste". All of your improvements would make it much nicer for the passengers but unfortunately they fail to address the problem that the TSA doesn't do a very good job in any capacity. As horrible as their public relations are it is hardly the biggest of their problems. Instead of spending a bunch of money gilding a turd how about we save a bunch of money by flushing the turd down the toliet?
Yes, TSA is an incredibly ineffective and intrusive system. Unfortunately, like many other ineffective and intrusive government agencies, it appears to be here to stay. That is why we propose state licensing of screeners - a modern form of checks and balances.
So yes, we want to make life nicer for passengers - that's the idea. Don't worry about the cost. As with every other regulated occupation and profession, the entire cost can be, and should be financed by license fees paid by TSA agents out of their own pocket. - Thus no cost at all to the taxpayer.
All states license various professions and occupations, such as barbers, electricians, plumbers, doctors and lawyers; even security guards. With the extension of state regulation would come discipline and accountability. A civilian review board could suspend or revoke a TSA agents license to deal with people, impose fines on the TSA agent, even recommend prosecution under local law.
I understand your desire to flush the whole mess down the toilet. Have you contacted your congressman and senators to let them know your feelings?
OMG, do people actually believe this nonsense? You honestly believe that you can incur huge additional expenses without that money, in some way, coming from the consumer? Really? You think the underpaid TSA agent is going to take a "pay-cut" by having to pay licensing fees, and insurance? They're going to do a BETTER job for LESS money? Good luck with that.
I'm a Libertarian so don't expect the "all states license various professions" argument to have any sway on me. The fact that people need a license to cut hair is ridiculous.
Yeah, and to drive cars, fly aircraft, inspect electrical wiring, design buildings and bridges, practice medicine, dispense pharmaceuticals...how useless and onerous.
Just more worthless government regulation.
Look, if you can get the TSA abolished, more power to you! You will have accomplished something politicians have promised, but never delivered - smaller government.
Until then, TSA will continue as it is - an unregulated menace to everyone who flies.
There are reasons why professions are regulated. Here are a couple from the code of Virginia:
"The unregulated practice of the profession or occupation can harm or endanger the health, safety or welfare of the public, and the potential for harm is recognizable and not remote or dependent upon tenuous argument;" and
"The public is not effectively protected by other means."
If you believe TSA agents harm or endanger the health, safety, or welfare of the public, and that the public is not effectively protected by other means, what solution do you propose? Stop flying? Not an option for a lot of people. Abolish the TSA? Congress can't even pass a budget. Drive, take the train or bus? TSA is already being deployed on the highways, at bus stations, and at rail stations. Have you even contacted your representatives to complain?
As for cost, think about the cost of doing nothing. Rampant theft. Men, women and children groped and fondled. Uninspected X-ray machines running non stop and causing cancer "clusters". A bureaucracy that believes it is above the law, and accountable to no-one - not even congress.
TSA is supposed to do background checks on all its employees. This has not always been done, however. If the only thing state licensing accomplished was to do the background checks that TSA has not, it would fully justify the expense.
BTW, one of the reasons barbers are beauticians are licensed and regulated has to do with hygiene and the spread of disease. Do you really want your barber to not to wash his hands between customers and reuse dirty towels, combs, razors and shears on one customer after another? A lot of these people make the same or less than full time TSA agents, yet they pay license fees and professional insurance premiums as an expense of doing business. Is it so unreasonable to expect TSA employees to do the same?
Of course, if you have a better solution, and can deliver, more power to you!
There is no reason for the screenings as they exist. There are other ways that are in use in far more dangerous areas of the world that are just as effective. I never want to hear whining about profiling again. We know who our enemies are. Make sure they get a second look. Randomly checking grandmothers and infants is a ridiculous waste of resources. There is no reason that passengers should not be able to pass an advance security check that exempts them from most of this BS.
I can't believe we have become such sheep. The Muslim extremists control us as surely as if Sharia law was already in place.
TSA to add another employee who will be called an "advocate" to make sure OUR rights are protected.
TSA is already required to support and defend the US Constitution over and above anything they do. The agents are responsible if they follow illegal orders from their superiors. They are the ones who will end up paying the price for enforcing illegal orders.
The job of advocate for the Rights of the People cannot be in TSA's hands since TSA orders their employees to violate the Oath they take . This means they (TSA agents) are either knowingly assisting domestic enemies in destroying our written guaranteed Rights; or they are legally responsible for not knowing the requirements of the job and following them instead of committing illegal searches.
Guilty until proven innocent by groping from minimum trained, minimum waged government employees. Something got lost there. By the way -- if I have to remove clothing, that's stripping.
What clothing have you ever had to remove? A jacket??
Texan
get together with Annapolis and work out a story of how you had to be stripped and then cattle prodded...
Too many policies for protecting the public work better in theory than in practice. I hope the news media will stay alert to whether this new system is implemented, and whether it works.
The news media does what they are told, well, the major ones do. This is up to us, the People.
The wording of the Presidential Oath was already established in the Constitution in Article II, Section 1, Clause 10. The requirement for all other Federal and State Civil officers to give their solemn and binding Oath is established in Article VI, Section 1, Clause 4. They are BOUND by their Oath to support the Constitution, and should they abrogate their Oath by their acts or inaction, are subject to charges of impeachment and censure.
Domestic enemies pursue legislation, programs against the powers of the US Constitution. They work on destroying and weakening the Rights of the People guaranteed by the Constitution. Plus they create laws, amendments, etc that goes against the restraint on the three branches of our government by the Constitution.
Whether the framers of the Constitution intended that the Supreme Court should in proper cases hold unconstitutional acts of Congress and acts of the legislatures of the States is answered Yes.
The subject was fully discussed not only in the Constitutional Convention, but also in the State ratifying conventions and in print.
Oliver Ellsworth, in the Connecticut Convention, stated clearly the practice then intended precisely as it exists in the courts today:
"This Constitution defines the extent of the powers of the general government. If the general legislature [Congress should at any time overleap their limits the judicial department is a constitutional check. If the United States go beyond their powers, if they make a law which the Constitution does not authorize, it is void"
The Constitution of the United States is a law for rulers and people, equally in war and peace, and covers with the shield of its protection all classes of men, at all times, and under all circumstances. No doctrine involving more pernicious consequences was ever invented by the wit of man than that any of its provisions can be suspended during any of the great exigencies of government. Such a doctrine leads directly to anarchy or despotism." -- The Supreme Court of the United States, 1866
Understand yet?
i will not fly unless over the ocean driving is not so bad and its way less hassel frk the tsa they stole my property and i dont think govt sponsered theft is what americans want
The same caliber of person that works the bmv s,busses,house keeping.Why so surprised.You hire stupid people you get stupid employees. Profiling is necessary. Don't fly if you don't want to comply.
It's fascinating that people with this kind of reasoning skills gain access to the whole internets.
"Don't like it? Don't fly!" Bleats Joyce.
What will you say, Joyce, when TSA is sticking their hands in your pants on the highway like they do routinely in Tennessee, or as they did when people were LEAVING a train in Savannah, Georgia?
Seriously, how do people like you get dressed every day without help from a mentally competent caregiver?
Silence Dogood
Since you are obviously much higher on the social scale and don't have to yield to searches like the rest of us peons, why don't you fly your own jet! I don't want to board a plane after the bleeding hearts make way for MORE terrorism! My family is worth a pat down! You remind me of the Muslims who won't let their wives see a doctor unless they're in the room with them.
Don't worry,. I won't. being strip searched and groped and having my bodyfelt up with mechanical devices and having my stuff stolen by TSA fill in the blanks is not on my to do list!
Folks, name someone who has a gun pointed directly at your head saying you absolutely MUST fly to get to your destination. That's right, no one.
If you can't drive there, it's not worth visiting.
And quit your bickering, don't act like you have something to hide, and COOPERATE with the TSA agents! If you have to do something other than putting your stuff on the belt to go through the X-ray, and then walking through the metal detector, then it's all on you.
"COOPERATE with the TSA agents!"
?????????
Yeah, let them rape you. That's what they're there for. Idiot.
I have something to hide: my vagina! I'm not sharing it with TSA bullies or with you, mkdenver. No trip is worth being sexually degraded, humiliated, having your pants and underwear taken from your body by strangers in a back room somewhere. These women should have said, "Absolutely no way are you going to remove my clothing, you'd better call the police right now to escort me out of the airport or I'll call 911 myself and report you for sexual assault."
@!$%#s agree with anything, and then have the audacity to believe that they are "Pro-Life"!
You're an idiot mkdenver, if I want to visit my family somewhere that is too far away to drive I damn right should be able to fly. If you are too scared to fly without getting molested then you can drive. I pay the airlines for a service and the government is saying I need their permission to receive the service of transportation. We need less people like you in this world.
Those people in Hawai'i, they're such whiny cry babies for wanting to fly places. The nerve!
mkdenver1 is the type of person who would look an American black in the South in the 1800's in the eye and say, "No one made you pick cotton! Get over yourself!"
Seriously, how do people like this get on the internets?
I agree with mkdenver1-3916898. Cooperate or get out out of the way, the rest of us have a plane to catch.
I don't mind my luggage being searched, but confascating a new container of shick razors, unopened, is goinig a little too far. I asked the the idiot, and most of them searching your luggage are downright idiots when they take a five pack of shick safety razors. I asked the inspector who comfacated did they ding I was going to shave the pilot to death.
That didn't go over too big on account the took me aside and informed they could do a strip search instead.
Being on a fixed income, that $8.00 or so bucks put me back. When I returned to the airport, being it was a round trip flight, I tried to retrieve the completely harmless razor blades, but was told these dangerious articles had to be dispossed of because it was on their list of things you arn't allowed carry aboard an airline even though it was secured in my carry on luggarge.
Next time I'll run my wheelchair over their foot.
Well, I can think of a lot of places that I can't drive to, that are very much worth visiting.
As long as the TSA acts in a reasonable fashion, there is no problem. All the problems exist because TSA, not passengers, has been unreasonable. TSA decided to buy $ 150,000. body scanners that don't work as well as $ 1,200. metal detecting archways. TSA instituted a policy of retaliatory sexual assault (euphemistically known as the enhanced pat down) on those who opt out of the scan. TSA robs passengers, not the other way around.
don't like the rules, don't fly.
Annapolis, if you thought you were sexually assaulted why didn't you file charges on the spot?
You are either naive or stupid. I wish they'd make cars as 'safe' as the pretend airlines to be. Then YOU'D be screaming about freedom, when it's actually a choice to drive a car, too.
Well, I don't like the rules, so I am trying to change the rules. BTW, what is so special about these rules? Were they handed down on tablets of stone from the Almighty? No! They were made by fallible human beings who ignored the constitution and common sense. They can be changed or repealed outright. There is no reason for anyone to accept the status quo and not try to correct a bad situation. Mrs. Blackburn's bill is a step in the right direction.
american,
Why shouldn't I fly. Because you are afraid of something, a terrorist? When have they stopped any at the airports? Mostly, I see our other agencies such as FBI, CIA get the terrorist groups long before it involves using the airlines. Searching people at point of departure doesn't stop the terrorist. Especially by the personnel they hire to do it.
I have seen many on here post "your rights stop when they infringe on my rights". So tell me why I should give up my right so you can have yours?
WOW
Lot of TSA agents are on this forum tonight.
I would rather not "COOPERATE" with the TSA, nor do I want the Schumer-Gianaris proposal implemented. It assumes we need a "passenger advocate" to help us deal with the TSA; we don't need help to deal with the TSA because we don't need the TSA.
The terrorists were excellent and spectacularly successful trolls. Instead of just manipulating a few internet posters' emotions, they manipulated the US's very freedoms. However, just as reacting angrily does not chase a troll away (they feed from that instead), reacting by taking away freedoms does not chase terrorists away (but it does make them smile at us from whatever hell is reserved for suicide bombers). The solution in both cases is to silently ban the ones that actually try to pull something off and go about life without even mentioning them in convo (they love attention).
Of course, just as the government doesn't get the internet (let alone its trolls), it doesn't get terrorists. They try to make bad treatments for the symptoms of their wrongs (employ more people to the TSA) when there's a cure (end the damn TSA) right on the counter.
Just what we need more government employees to watch over government employees. How about firing the ones that had this "misunderstanding".
TSA is an utter waste of taxpayer money. There will never be another American plane hijacked by terrorists. They had their day on 9/11/01. Hell, they didn't even fulfil all of their wicked plot then, thanks to the gutsy passengers on Flight 93.
I would count it an honor to slit the throat of a towelhead dirtbag intent on harming innocent people. Got a problem with that? If so, the problem is in your mirror.
You sound like a Martyr
Ken Tankerous - You sound like a right wing politician that is f@#%ing up the US freedom by selling their souls to the corporations and lobbysts. What a stupid jerk you are! If you have any self-respect as a civilized American you would not allow TSA rape the elderly and innocent passengers everyday at the airports... Who gave them the rights - jerks like you, stupid...
AND Carl Hubert sounds like he either works for the TSA or is a Cheerleader for the TSA, or perhaps is one of their Lap Dogs.
Come on Carl it's gotta be one of them!
Hey mywaves2009:
I would say, go back and read my post a second time but you obviously didn't even read it the first time. Go back to bed.
And no I'm not right wing.....just right, that's all.
We need to get Congress out of regulating the Airlines before none of us can afford to Fly. Everything they do just increases the price of a ticket. When they fly we are paying for it in our taxes. "Congress is the Largest Collection of Crooks and thieves ever assembled"
Yes, indeed - these days the airlines are above the law. They can charge on anything they like. Yesterday, my family went on an overseas travel by US Airways. Tickets were bought months ago. For internatonal travel by a foreign airline you are allowed to check-in two 50lb bags per passanger. When we got to CLT airport, US airways made us pay $60 per passangers for these bags just to take them to NY, where my family would catch an International flight. Me and my wife argued with a supervisor for 10 minutes for nothing and he would not make any concession/exception. They will just charge you for anything just becuase they can and there is no law that prohibits them.
I fully support a new law requiring presene of an advocate that looks after passenger's rigthts...
nationalize the airlines then, I am sure that travel prices will fall due to government efficiency. lol!
I totally agree, and nice pic of Curious George you have there.
Why should the passenger advocate be part of the TSA? That's like the fox guarding the chicken coop.
Please Schumer and Gianaris, if you want to do something worthwhile, propose that the passenger advocates at airports be independent of the TSA and the DHS.
Instead of a passenger advocate, The National Association of Airline Passengers believes there should be a civilian review board at each airport having the authority to hear complaints and discipline screeners for misconduct. The civilian review board should be part of the state government's department of occupational and professional regulation. (These are the people who license doctors, electricians, barbers, etc.) TSA screeners should be required to be licensed by the state in which they work, post a fidelity bond against theft, a surety bond guaranteeing good conduct, and insured against damage to passengers and airport property.
The cost to the public for all this? Zero. TSA agents should be required to pay the entire cost of this through individual license fees.
States require security guards to be licensed, bonded, and insured. TSA agents should meet the same standard.
I can see it now....the line to the advocates office will be backlogged and those seeking recourse will be pizzed at missing their flight or connecting flight. Then again given the choice of a quick search or missing a flight might keep the line down + having the requirement that the complainer file immediately and wait for resolution wouldn't hurt either
I'm very happy to see Congress finally doing something about the TSA's sick gauntlet of sexual humiliation. The TSA is traumatizing and injuring more innocent travelers every day. But why are we talking about passenger advocates and changing the fake-police uniforms, when Congress should be shutting down this entire perverted fiasco and pursuing criminal charges against John Pistole, the child molester in chief? Pistole thinks it's just fine to order you to let strangers rub your genitals if you've had a mastectomy or an implanted medical device. Pistole thinks it's just fine to create and transmit nude images of children without seeking their parents' permission. Pistole thinks you deserve a strip search if you want to fly, only he likes to call it an "enhanced vaginal visualization". This man deserves jail time.
I am 69 and have both knees and hips replaced, so I do ring bells and whistles. When I had each replacement my doctor gave me plastic coated cards with all the information on it including a picture of the parts they put in me. After exray they still insisted on me being padded down. It was like the police do on TV to suspected criminals.
But all in the best interest of travelers it is worth it. It is so easy for someone or more than one to bring illegal and dangerous stuff on board. We have found out it could be someone's grandmother or a baby. This day and age we can't be too carefull. I just hope they are more deligent on foreign passengers entering our great country. That includes Americans who are traveling over-seas and back.
Sharon, I'm glad you like being rubbed over to prove you have nothing to hide. That's kind of sad.
I guess you're OK then that TSA agents regularly take bribes to allow contraband to pass right under their noses, or that cargo isn't screened, or that the baggage x-ray machines can't detect explosives? Meanwhile you'll happily allow a government agent to fondle you in the name of safety.
Pathetic.
Sharon--look for the new machines. They allow folks with metal implants to go through without a pat down. I always try to get in that line to avoid the delay involved in the patdown.
Malby,
Yeah right. I went through one of those new machines. Guess what. Got patted down because it showed according to them three area on my body that were suspect. Of course there was nothing there, but you would have thought I was #1 on the FBI list. Missed my plane, didn't even get so much as a "sorry". Last time I will allow that. May as well put up with jail for a couple of hours, at least I'll have rights there.
The T.S.A. could use a spokesperson . . .
well granted it might have been a bit awkward and embarrassing for the lady I don't see it stopping anytime soon a terrorist can be anyone and do anything weither it's putting a bomb on the plane or hooked to someone shoot even a baby's diaper/diaper bag is suitable for anything.
Well, Steph, a terrorist could show up at the airport, wait in line for security screening, then detonate a bomb right there in the line, killing as many, if not more, people then might be on an airplane.
So frisking someone before they board isn't going to stop that. Or a terrorist could do the same thing at the mall where you shop. What do you want to do about that?
LOL shop and fly like all normal people do. I'm not going to let nutcases or people with vengence on their mind ruin my rights and have me live in fear like everyone else.
TSA has a tough job. I sincerely doubt they enjoy patting down anybody and being around the stench of shoes ALL DAY long. I've witnessed TSA agents being verbally abused for doing their jobs which is to keep the flying public safe.
My advice - give yourself plenty of time to clear security and pack accordingly. Otherwise do everyone a favor and Go Greyhound.
You go greyhound if you are so scared. Doing business with an airline is between the airline and I. I'm not wasting my time going greyhound for cowards like you that give in to the fears of terrorism. With so many people like you I guess the terrorists really did win.
lazer
Being a coward is not the same as having some common sense. It's people like you who will allow terrorists to blow airliners up again. I'm an ex-Marine combat squad leader and I'm not afraid of anyone, but when it comes to MY FAMILY'S SAFETY, I will gladly submit to ANY screenings.
Um Gloria Go Greyhound?Where have you been?The illustrious TSA has set up shop in the Bus stations also.
To the ex marine who is so concerned about the safety of his family here's a news flash.You'd be better off educating your kids about their Constitutional Rights than worrying about their PSEUDO SAFETY, given to you by the TSA Parasites.
You both really are naive aren't you?
gloria
Constitutional rights are no good to dead people! Is there some reason that anyone here should think that you're smarter than them? Naive would be a very term for you. Naive or working for terrorist's rights! Has your husband Ahmed got you and the rest of his wives working overtime? Don't get your burqua all wadded up!
Report just in I am Smarter than them because I see through all the Pseudo Bull Sh it!
They couldn't save your cocker spaniel.
Okay so you say naive is the word for me,actually it isn't, and I say Guillible is the word for you.
Oh and my husbands name isn't Ahmed, I don't where a Burqua and were Congregationalists!
What's your Excuse?
Ok RDG6 why don't you take the greyhound then. Even if a plane were to get taken down it would still be safer than driving. Even better let the airlines hire security to put on board the plane. The only reason people want to blow up our planes anyways is because the US gov't has nothing better to do other than meddle in the affairs of the middle east.
Oh I forgot another thing RDG6, common sense is the opposite of thinking there is a guy trying to blow up the plane you are on when you have a much better chance (I can't exaggerate much better chance enough) of dying on an accident on land in a car or by other means.
Benjamin Franklin
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
"We will NEVER be 100% safe, there will always be something that threatens us but it is important to remember that seasonal issues should never deride the eternal value of liberty and freedom. If we surrender any liberty or freedom solely for our temporary security we not only lose that freedom, we also steal it from future generations that will not face the element that we surrendered it for."
RDG6 you just do not 'have a full deck'.
And to all of those who say that if one does not like searches, just take a bus or a train - a post somewhere in this vine states that T.S.A. has begun searches at Tennessee bus stations now, and plans to go nationwide on those too.
So give me an answer of what to do now. Drive? So smart. With the logic of half of the fools on this vine, it will just be a matter of time before T.S.A. road searches are set up. The framework for these already exists at the checkpoints north of the border like the one on I5 in San Diego county; or the checkpoints held for D.U.I.'s on most holidays.
Step #1: Make sure Congresspeople and Cabinet members and their families (including elderly parents, children, grandchildren) have to go through exactly the same screening everyone else does, every time -- instead of getting walked around all that and through a different VIP doorway. Make them do this even if they're going out on a private jet owned by some corporate mogul. I'm guessing the rules would change in about ten minutes.
It is already thoroughly degrading and humiliating. My elderly mother just had a knee replacement, and apparently the scanners can't distinguish a prosthetic knee from a bomb, so now she always gets pulled out for the full intrusive "pat-down." (Why can't they just pat down that knee or have her pull up that trouser leg? but no, she says it's the full shebang feel-up into her groin.) She's pretty unflappable but it obviously embarrasses her.
I have it all the time. It's only a big deal if you're hypersensitive. If you're hypersensitive, perhaps you should drive, or take the train. You make exceptions for old or "sensitive" people, we'll have a older female bomber show up.
Malby, please give us your TSA badge number.
Rugbymom in RI - I know exacrtly what you are talking about. I just saw this with my own eyes - yesterday what they did to my mother-in-law while going through the security. She is 85 yrs old and uses a wheel chair. TSA agent basically gave my in-law a full body massage while she was barely standing next to her wheel chair. I think this pure stupidity when you see an 85 yr old being harassed this way. She cannot walk let alone carrying explosives of guns. This is when you say supidity has overtaken common sense and taht is lacking in every TSA agent - no common sense...
Hey malby, if you are going to choose to spend the money to fly driving or taking a train isn't practical timewise. Next time you want to go coast to coast you can take the Greyhound if the terroists scare you, don't waste my time in a bus.
Malby,
How many planes have crashed due to circumstances other then terrorist in the last ten years. I would say you have a far greater chance of that happening than being blown up by terrorist.
No one is saying to completely get rid of all security at airports. Just some of most ineffective and unessary ones and to use allot of common sense instead of none.
z
my mom had a cameral stolen from her bag by tsa
i always put dirty underwear all over my checked bag, ha ha
i opted for the pat down once when i didn't want to take my sweatshirt off and acted like i was enjoying it! take that, tsa!~
You've got some issues. Go see a psychiatrist. You think they care one way or another? No, they arewearing gloves and they laugh at you every time you act like you are enjoying it and put dirty underwear all over your bag. Wacks are us.
Why not just scrap this stupid "security" screening and go with something like the Israeli Travel Security where they do profiling? I'm not saying everyone that dresses like a Muslim is a terrorist, but someone that is acting strange... maybe there's a reason for that. Why are children and the elderly being felt up and the country is just taking it??
Felt up? Your sexual adventures must have been pretty poor, if you equate TSA patdowns with anything sexual.
Fill in the blank with anything you want the politicians. Kick 'em all out next election and let's start all over again. We don't need the kind of crap and spoiled baby crying and back room deal making they're giving us!
Charlene is correct - we should be profiling, but we are a bunch of sheep. And Pistone....he should have been fired a long time ago for allowing this to continue.
Funny how Malby continues to defend the TSA so firmly....why is that?
I WILL NEVER FLY AGAIN~~~~~ I am sick and tired of being robbed of the few rights we have left
Good people like you should just stay home and eat turtles
I like the milk chocolate ones, also the ones that don't call others bad names