i'm no pilot (i don't even have a driver's license yet), but don't they have to be told to go to a gate first, and how to get there so they don't pass behind a plane that's backing up?

even so, if this plane was stranded out on the tarmac, i'd be willing to bet that all the gates were full... there may have been no gate for this plane to go to, even if they could make it on their own.

OK, I know things get a lot slower when there is snow everywhere, but 7 hours?!?

Sorry kid, no way.... they could have plowed the snow, moved the planes at the gates to get the other planes in to let people get off... the only issue is that the process costs money... and the corporate profit margin doesn't allow for that kind of spending on behalf of the lowly customer.

They could have put a truck ladder up to the door and let people off if they so desired - there is no possible excuse for this behavior never was never will be. I think compensation of $100,000 per passenger paid to the passenger is insufficient but would send a message even the dollar demonds would understand.

Somebody's writing a $19MM+ check. ;)

You cant just fire up the engines on a commercial airliner and drive around at will, and im not even referring to the fact that there was no visibility to do so if he wanted to.

And why Connecticut? Everyone (but Jet Blue) knew the plane would get snowed in. Send them where the snow ain't!! Duh.

JetBlue execs have no business being in the airline business.

The entire executive level needs to be fired.

.

is the first thing the people in charge always want to do is send in a cop waive a badge and point a gun at people who have to piss and @!$%#? quads needing to be releaved?.....disabled vets needing to eat and piss?

JESUS CHRIST we live is one @!$%#kkkkkkkkkcked up society!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

JetBlue days are numbered.

They better not penalize the pilot. He was in a bad situation there.

Airlines HATE rerouting or canceling flights. They do not care how bad it is, if they can get the plane up and down they win. I have been stranded on tarmacs for up to 3.99 hours, just shy of that penalty time, and it sucks. Kids screaming, parents frustrated, can't move, nothing to eat. It is miserable, yet the airlines don't care because they aren't on the flight. The pilots and flight attendants are more compassionate of course, but their hands are tied. If the airport says go they go.

Her Jerk....what about the gate they just left? Come onnnn. Jet Blue had been behaving badly for years now.....you would think they would get a clue!! Hell they wouldn't make money taking people to the gate...why would they!!

Now they'll say they are investigating 'the situation' and the Pilot will somehow be fired....you watch

This society sucks for sure!!!!!!

Remember, the airport is a gov't agency. That would make too much common sense.

For Taxi to the gate, you have to have clearance to an empty gate. Otherwise you block the outbound plane as well and these planes do not drive in reverse that well. You need marshallers, tugs, etc. Without clearance to a gate, you have no place to go. Also if the taxiways are not cleared sufficenlty, You may have trouble discerning the centerline and the route. If you go off a taxiway you are really stuck. As for Keels1, This aircraft was not departing, but arriving. Flight 504, as it's identified in the recording, was one of at least three JetBlue planes that reportedly sat on the tarmac for several hours after being diverted from New York-area airports during a snowstorm. In other words, they had just arrived with no place to go as the outbound planes had not departed the gates. They were stuck.

That's what I'm worried about - the pilot. The pilot is worried for the passengers because he's right there. The toilets weren't even flushing? Ugh.

Airports( government employees) and Airlines ( corporations) do not use common sense in severe weather situations. I am sure all the gates were full with planes that were stranded and could not take off. What should have happened is to move multiple planes away from the gates, park them somewhere, then let the stranded planes disembark their passengers. After the passengers were safe, you could park the JetBlue planes out on the tarmac and let the initial planes have their gates back. At least the passengers could be inside the airport where there would hopefully be food and working toilets.

This would have cost a few bucks ( not that much, because the airport already had the staff there). The biggest issue would be cooperation among the airlines. Nobody wants to give up their gates, because as soon as the weather clears, you want to get going. You have to have licensed pilots around to move the planes from the gate to the tarmac and back.

This crap happens every year in severe weather. The cold weather airports and airlines really should have a plan of action to get people off of planes and back to the airport. If this was a military operation with one guy in charge, it would get done in about 90 minutes, even at O Hare or Newark.

There are plenty of legitimate questions here. Without knowing the actual situation at the airport, it's hard to guess what lead to these events, but I'll offer some of what I know. First, gates have to be open; that is, no plane is already parked their waiting to embark or disembark passengers. If the weather was bad enough for the airport to freeze planes and tugs where they were for safety reasons, you end up with gridlock on a colossal scale. Secondly, when planes are diverted, they stack up on taxiways like a traffic jam. To tow one plane, you have to move all the planes in front. This is not an apology, just information to start with. I agree with the poster that said they should have deployed mobile gangways. If the trucks could move, they should have. Barring that, the only option a pilot has is to pop the air ramps and evacuate, sending passengers scrambling in the snow toward the terminal. That would have to be a last resort. The JetBlue ground crews will probably get killed for this, but even they need clearance to enter the tarmac. An airport is not like a park; someone has to authorize you to go anywhere, or you face criminal charges.

It sounds like a terrible situation that will end up costing JetBlue a fair chunk of change. I wonder if the fines go the the passengers? Probably not. That would make too much sense.

Having worked at an airport, I know it isn't easy for the terminal to get all these overload planes. However, if the planes at the gates were empty, they should have moved them back to allow the planes to be towed in to unload, or send out buses and mobile ramps to deplane the passengers. That would have been the terminal, not the airlines. Did they warn the airport of these planes being diverted and coming to Connecticut? Someone dropped the ball. Most airlines will not compensate for weather conditions, that is why the government stepped in with the fines for planes holding passangers on board for more than a certain number of hours.

How many empty aircraft were parked at the gates. None of these could be towed out of the way so the full aircraft can be parked ? Is this the first snow they've ever had ? No game plan ? Who is in charge of Jet Blue, the Three Stooges ?

I have been on a plane that has been diverted and stuck in the "wait game" for a gate. I know when we diverted to Colorado Springs (as were many other flights trying to get to Denver) - as the magic hour came about, planes were pushed back from the gates to a holding area - then others were sent to the gate to deplane - walk around - with a time limit when to return back to re-board the plane and allow another flight up to the gate. It did go smoothly. Also, passengers wanting to end the flight there - were asked to sign off on paperwork and were clearly told that their luggage was still on the plane and going to Denver. Frontier did a great job from handing out beverages and snacks to keeping everyone up to date on the weather. Colorado Springs airport did a great job in pulling planes and backing them out to the wait area. Too bad CT - you need to take lessons from the western airports.

Deregulation at it's finest! You wanted cheap airfare. You got it. Airlines only compete on price NOT SERVICE! Next time take Amtrak. No grope travel. At least you can spread out and stretch your legs. Even walk around. The service along the east coast to Florida is the best in their fleet.

@ KiloByte1339, I'm not a fan of liberal politics by any means, yet the conservatives of late I don't like much either. Politics aside your "Typical liberal" statement is completely ignorant. Please keep such opinions and limitless knowledge to yourself if this is the extent of your input. Blame the government en large if you must (plenty of truth in that) but don't play politics in relation to a story with plenty of blame for all sides and then some.

The common story here is that as always the common people who pay to support a system (DOT, airlines, etc) are the ones who get screwed... yet again. Poor pilots and ground crews will probably get a share of the blame when all they do is follow orders / rules. Can't imagine being stuck in a small space with toilets backing up and babys crying, the cramped seating is already punishment enough. Can't wait for the coming of high speed trains en mass to the US.

High speed trains will never come to where they are needed. The cost of land is now too high and there are too many vested interests to allow their development.

$19,250,000 is the fine that should be imposed under the law if the article is correct with 700 passengers. How much of that will each passenger receive? If 0, can they sue? and should they?

@ Notanidiotlikeolegunny,

The government could care less what your land is worth you never get full value.

@ JerkInCoolClothes,

Do you remember how easy it was for that wacko flight attendant to get off the plane a year or so ago? It's easy open the door and pull the air bag slide. There is no excuse for this, gates you use to get on and off the planes is not the only way into an airport once you're on the tarmac.

It's simple don't fly jet blue agin. Don't fly any airline that has a history of this!!

So, the "outbound" planes at the gates couldn't take off....so back an empty one out to the apron and let the Jet Blue plane have the gate for de-planing. Is that too complicated for the dumbasses at Jet Blue, and the airport staff? I hope the passengers sue these dumb SOBs for a bunch, and win.

Notanidiotlikeolegunny

There are high speed rail designs which coexist with current freight rails. Very little additional land would be required.

Nothing like a litte eminent domain to keep the land cost low.... LOL Anyway you might find that a lot of the land may already be Fed gov owned in the name of the citizens of this country....

Question... how is it that land can be purchased to build another interconnector toll highway or even marc trains yet this cannot be done to accomodate the high speed rail?.....

This won't happen of course if the airlines have anyting to do with it because if you were an airline Why would you want competition in the form of high speed rail? LOL

Question.... there are unused tram lines in most cities and town in the USA..... was this the way that the auto companies were able to encourage proliferation of the automobile by probably getting rid of these tram systems?

How is it that there are high speed trains in Europe yet very few to none in the USA? Wont even bother to mention China, Japan etc and their rail system......

Frankly I would rather travel cross country by rail than by air. At least by train there are landscapes to see etc.....

Question... are we in the USA really in the 21st Century yet or are we just faking it?

It is time to stop blaming the government for everything..... the govt is made up of civil servants trying to do their jobs even as they are down sized and rubbished by the repubconservateabaggers......

If you are going to blame the govt then name names, not make blanket statement about 'the government'. If you are blaming congress then say so, not just big blanket blame the 'government' because the congress is the law/rules/regs etc making arm of the government that these other civil servants working in their various departments must follow to carry out their jobs, if I am not mistaken..

Sometimes the crap that happens have nothing to do with the government per se and is soley the responsibility of the corporations and companies etc involved.

Question.... isn't it time we start blaming ourselves as voters for the problems in our country? Didn't we vote these people in, in the first place?

Question.... who is to blame for the mess that is in the country especially now since 2010 with the "do nothing but pass more restrictive laws to take away women/couples etc reproductive choices and rights instead of being about jobs creation republiconservateabaggerdino congress?

We are to blame... we voted them in....either by actively going to the polls and casting a vote for them or staying away from the polls and not voting..... or voting for the same folks over and over again even although the country, technology, financial instruments etc have change that many of these folks do not even understand but are in charge of/heading committees that oversee these things..... (well at least we have 1 scientist in Congress, if I am not mistaken..we really do)

Suggestion......Perhaps it is time for the folks in Congress...especially the career polititians... to have to get or complete a certain number of continuing education units/credits CEUs every year... just like folks in any profession must do to keep their license active......Hmmmmm

Now that you've gotten all this off your chest I hope you feel better now!

@ThereseInAZ

Jet Blue is all about the money and hang customer service. Bottom line

Spam much Therese? http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=68539928

Btw, there is no such thing as an unscheduled docking fee for an airline.

One of the earliest, major, nor-Easters was projected to move up the coast by every meteorologist. The storm grew to immense proportions over HOURS AND HOURS.........Apparently not enough LEAD TIME for the idiots running Jet Blue to hatch a plan to avoid problems.

SEVEN HOURS on the tarmac waiting for.....................what? So having gotten to that point and accomplishing absolutely NOTHING, Jet Blue blames the storm and the backups on everything but themselves. Now I'm not an airline employee, nor was I ever an air traffic controller or anything else involved with the everyday operation of an airline. BUT!......Having traveled extensively, I have to wonder WHY would anyone divert storm bound aircraft to ANOTHER airport experiencing the same storm to have my passengers and my aircraft SIT on the pavement for seven God Damn hours when they could have sent the planes (about an HOUR away) to Syracuse, or Rochester, NY ? The sky in upstate NY was free of even ONE snow flake to the west of Albany; no rain; no wind, perfect flying weather. At LEAST the passengers and crews could have deplaned in those places; been fed; bathrooms; other flights, ect, ect., ect., ect. ONE HOUR AWAY??????? So Jet Blue sent their passengers from one snow bound airport to another smaller, snow bound airport? Where the F' is the logic in that?

You took the thought right out of my head. Why not call 911?

Because according to the terms of carriage you agree to when you buy your ticket, gives them the out for the criminal behavior.

OR grab a can of beer and deploy the emergency slide ;)

911 might help - but they are not obligated if it puts them in danger. And they're not a customer service desk or concierge. Ask any number of people who were stuck on Mt Rainer in a storm and told to "tough it out."

in the event of a similar event, call FLYERS RIGHTS HOTLINE at

877-359-33776

support them monetarily. these are the folks who convinced congress to pass a flyers rights bill!

flyersrights.org

Yah, how does one pull the emergency slide anyway? Sounds like a good idea. Got beer?

About 12 people did call 911. However, at about the 5th Hour, I'd just pop the emergency exit and slide down the slide.

The airport could have handled this real easy like: stairs to plane, with a bus behind it. Transfer passengers to bus. Take bus to terminal, escort passengers to secure area behind Customs.

Simple. Cheap.

But people in this country do not have brains. When the zombie apocalypse happens, they're going to starve to death pretty quickly.

Calling 911 would have no effect. You would have to state your emergency and if it were false as it would have to be to change your status (stranded in an airplane), you would be criminally liable for a false report. Operating the slide except in an emergency or at the direction of a crewmember is a federal offense.

Um, where exactly do you think ambulances, police, or the magical 911 elves are going to park? And what do you expect them to do, anyway? Conduct a helicopter evacuation? Calling 911 because you're stuck on a plane is about as moronic as attempting to push the crew aside, open the doors, and release the emergency chutes. If you somehow managed to do all that, and stumbled across the tarmac in a snowstorm without breaking your neck or getting hit by a deicing truck or being sucked into an engine you'd be met at the door by federal law enforcement and could look forward not to going home, but to a big fine and spending a year or two in federal prison.

Oh, and while we're at it, where do you imagine those stairs come from? Heaven? How many sets do you think the airport keeps around? A hundred? How do you expect a bus (and I guess you think the airport has an unlimited supply of those lined up and ready to go racing out into the snow to save you) get out there when the tarmac's full of planes? Do you have any concept of how big a jet is?

And another thing, geniuses, the pilots can't do a damn thing without ATC clearance. ATC tells them when and where they can land/take off and if ATC tells them to stay where they are, they stay there or they lose their jobs and their certificates and that's best-case scenario. There's a reason why airports have strict guidelines on landing and takeoff clearances. It's called "runway incursion." Look it up. Better yet, look up "Tenerife" and see what happens when pilots get tired of waiting and decide to ignore ATC.

well, moron or not, at least my imprisonment would be at my own choice. My inprisonment would not have crying young babies. It would have toilets, and free food.

I am smart enough to weigh out the consequences of my actions and while I probably would not pull the slide I may have been one of many to go down it, trudge through the snow, etc...

What if everybody chose to go down the slide?

Then everyone would go to prison. And that's a pretty stupid choice.

Besides, YOU can't get access to the slides unless you're willing to assault a flight attendant.

Also, there was another plane on one side that kinda sorta blocked them in, and the air stairs and the cops were on the other. But hey, good luck.

I feel sorry for everyone on the plane, passengers and crew. Read about the fines, HIGH to say the least. What does the passenger get? A free ticket? Doubt if they are ever gonna fly JET BLUE again.

Not just airports, but every business, needs Emergency Responce Policy. It's the same everywhere, with whatever business, no matter how long you've done it, in a crisis it's everybody's FIRST time!

Hey ninedaysjane, did you even read the story? It said they were going to send some troopers on the plane. The pilot begged them not to. That means there was access to the plane by driving a vehicle there and also one of those mobile stairways. How else would the troopers get on board genius? They could have unloaded the people and brought them to the terminal.

Try reading the story first before you start mouthing off with your nonsense. And if someone was desperate enough to pull the emergency chute and the all the passengers got off, I'd bet you any money they wouldn't spend a day in jail. They were under severe distress.

Hey, idiot, did you listen to the clip over at atc.net? I did. Guess what? About 15 minutes later the passengers got so out of control that the pilot had to call in the cops. The cops boarded via a set of airstairs. The passengers were deplaned via a couple of buses. The plane couldn't move because the airport's only available tow bar was being repaired. You might have found that out if you'd actually bothered looking into the story instead of sitting around shooting YOUR mouth off.

And yes, and they would have gone to jail. The feds don't care how much "distress" you're in. You broke the law and put a lot of other people at risk. Did you know there was another plane on one side? The only time the chutes can be deployed is when the pilot declares an emergency, and he has to answer to his employer and the FAA for that, and the FAA takes that sort of thing very, very seriously, particularly when a bunch of people break their legs trying to carry all their luggage down a very slippery surface onto an icy tarmac--which is exactly would have happened, because the chutes are made for getting out in a hurry when there's an actual emergency, not when the toilets back up. Go see what a real pilot has to say about the situation before you go spouting nonsense:

It's not just JetBlue...it's pretty much all the domestic carriers.

We love JetBlue.

I am terrified of flying, but will fly JetBlue any time that I have to be in the air. Their track record is amazing.

You get what you pay for, and it's all domestic carriers, you think they took the day off and Jet Blue was the only commercial planes in the sky. This is the old, forget the name, but they crashed over Florida because of some sort of oxygen containers they weren't suppose to be carrying started a fire.

There is a reason these clowns are always in the paper and it ain't bad luck.

Change the name but the quality of employees remains the same.

Why do fines go to the government, these people should get the proceeds of any levies Jet Blue gets, Uncle Sam didn't have to sit on a plane with screaming kids and backup commodes for 7 hours.

Hey look, Jet Blues management is doing something, trolling the comments section and telling us how great they are. Jet blues record is crap if you go back to before it was called Jet Blue.

Scott, you're thinking of ValuJet which became AirTran after the merger of ValuJet and AirTran. JetBlue was founded as a new company.

The airline that crashed was ValuJet. It is now AirTran. It is not affiliiated with JetBlue.

Yeah, because JetBlue can control the weather, and has power over every airport authority and air traffic controller in the whole country.

Those of you above who suggested calling 911 should think again or get better information. I know someone who did just that, and for the reasons reflected in this article. 2 days and 3 nights in jail, money to a bailbondsman, lawyers fees, long distance travel costs for his first trial, fine assessed at trial conclusion,etc. He wound up paying out more than $26,000.00 on top of his time and aggravation. They were lenient with him because he had an exterior colostomy bag. Our country is great, but it's also screwy.

It seems like such a simple problem to solve we must not understand the events.

If the gates are full pull the empty plane out and get the passengers off the tarmac. They would be much better off inside a terminal and not on a non-functioning air plane.

Set up a procedure where some one is in charge. It was obvious the Air Line was not providing any assistance to the Pilot. Someone had to be RUNNING the Airport operations wouldn't he be in charge?

I wish I were part of the Investigation I guarantee I would find out why the system failed.

Give the $27,000 Dollars to each passenger instead of a fine to the Airline which they will never pay. I assume all the passengers can sue the air lines for violating the FAA rules. The FAA put all these planes at that airport shouldn't they be held responsible for handling the passengers?

Since when do pilots get a crappy rate of pay? Sure they can't make $300K by working 1 day a week anymore but its still a pretty lucrative job.

Not really. One of the pilots who crashed in Buffalo earned less than 20k a year and lived with her parents, communted to work, the other pilot slept in the lounge to save money. Even the famous Sully Sullenberger said he only makes around 125/year. Pathetic for that level of experinece and responsibilty.

I don't know anything about the average salaries, but the pilots I knew who were trying to break in were getting paid salaries below the poverty level to fly a full-time schedule for small regional/discount carriers. My understanding from them was that this is the "new normal" for airline pilot salaries, but obviously it would be good if someone had harder figures to post.

It depends on if they pilot internationally, domestically, or for a shipping co., and the size of the plane. Domestic pilots make on the order of 40-60k a year, whilst international pilots make 2-3 time that amount (though this is largely due to the more sophisticated and larger aircraft).

The commodes on airplanes aren't supposed to be flushed when the plane is on the ground. That would be very bad. They don't have holding tanks.

Fairly certain that is incorrect on a plane of this size.

gimme a break- you're kidding, right?

if not, do some research...

Pilot pay has increasingly gone down since the eighties, while. airlines' profits have increasingly risen, with the only drop during the aftermath of 9/11. And, now, they have used 9/11 as an excuse to further cut pilot pay. Many live just above the poverty line and, now, the turnover rate is incredibly high. You just cannot pay slave wages and expect people to stay. Just more examples of how badly Corporate America treats employees and customers. Their attitude of, "Like it or lump it" is going to come back to haunt them. I, for one, refuse to fly. I just will not pay to be abused by being hand-searched, have someone go through my personal things (just look at the story of the woman who had a sex toy in her luggage and the TSA agent left a note saying, "You go girl!" in her luggage!....uh, no thanks) and to be shoved into a small space for several hours (seating space has grown increasingly smaller since the 90's). All for an exorbitant amount of money!

Commodes do indeed work on the ground. However, they don't flush same the way as in your home because they can't carry around so much water. So, their power source may be bleed air from the APU system, which also supplies electrical power (cooling, lights, etc.) and must be turned on to work, which means fuel burn. Also, airplanes don't carry around a lot of extra fuel, so they can't divert very far from the original destination without requiring a refuel, which can take even more time because how do you move an airplane with no fuel to a fuel stand? Once the fuel is used up, you sit in a dark and cold airplane and wait for the tug to show up.

Everything is geared to minimize the cost of operation, in order to keep ticket prices low; if anything causes a delay a whole chain reaction of bad things can happen.

Could this be prevented? Sure, but it would cost more money in preparation and would drive up ticket prices.

Giveme a break... the commoddes are not supposed to flush while on the ground???......they do not flush into the Air...Are you crazy?? They flush into a holding tank which is then cleaned when they are full. How do you think all the people went to the bathroom the first 4hrs until the tank was full and the toilets would no longer flush?

omg people....

If you listened to the end of the audio, you will hear him say his name is Captain Thompson (at least that is what I am sure I heard) and he thanked the person for their help.

We all know that JetBlue will be fined thousands of dollars and in return they will more than likely fire more than the Captain. They probably will fire the JetBlue employees at the airport who were suppose to help them but didn't and we all know that is because they didn't have enough employees working the airport which in turn is not fair to fire any of them including the Captain. He was looking out for the passengers best interest.

Yeah right... I might believe a corporation is a person after the state of Texas sentences one to death...

That's an execution I would like to watch.

Yeah right... I might believe a corporation is a person after the state of Texas sentences one to death...

You saw that on an OWS sign, didn't you? Cause I did.

Maybe the Supreme court should take up this issue. They made a corporation a PERSON then all laws that apply to people now apply to corporations.

How can our Supreme Court sleep at Night making such a WRONG decision. I assume the only legal enity who could challenge the Supreme Court decision is the US Justice Department. Of course Congress could pass a law reversing the court decision but they are much to busy debating In God We Trust. What a Joke our current congress has become.

Thom Hartmann wrote in his book "Unequal Protection" that it was a clerk (or something) of one of the Supreme Court Justices who wrote it into one of the Supreme Court transcripts at the time they were hearing a railroad case...

So, technically, you'd think it wasn't valid....

yeah, cause that would make the wait that much better for you and those around you...

I'm pretty sure you would be exiting that plane with substantially fewer teeth than when you boarded- I understand your sentiment, but that is hardly the way to handle the situation...

isn't it little kids who crap themselves to get attention?

Kudos to you for making a bad situation worse. My two year old would have done the same, but he probably would have been shrieking by that point, too, if you want any more ideas on how to behave badly.

And I, and others, would probably have punched your face in. If you posted something that stupid just to get attention, you are sorely in need of a life

Sounds like your kids control you.

Im sorry to hear you are subect to such an undisciplined child.

Bring it on!

I dont think its 27.5K per hour. Just $27.5. Still, thats 19.25MM ish.

God I wish you people would do some research. " because some incompetent employees couldn't shuffle a few planes at the gate and do the right thing.".

Are you serious? Since when does Jetblue gate agent responsibilities include moving around aircraft? That is what Bradley international airport employees and Air Traffic Control employees are for, that's what they get paid for. This whole thing has been blown so much out of proportion that it's not even funny.

7 Hours on a plane = blown out of proportion? Don't fly much, do you?

Thanks, youblinked19, for bringing some logic into the discussion. What's JB supposed to do, bring in helicopters and airlift people out? Do you all think that the only planes on the ground belonged to JetBlue? They made the news because of the pilot's call for help. The airport only has so many resources available and they were probably doing the best they could. And if ATC tells you to sit there and wait, you sit there and wait. There's nothing JB can do about it. They can't demand that ATC let their planes go first because they've been sitting there the longest. Air traffic controllers work for the FAA, and they do not care if you're JetBlue or American or Lufthansa. You line up and wait just like everybody else, and if you don't like it, you can land your planes elsewhere. Jeez, some of you really need to a get clue about how the airline industry works before you go running your mouths.

but what happened with Lufthansa, Delta, Air France, etc.?

It's always poor little ole JetBlue that runs into problems. Pure coincidence for sure.

The airport is carp too.

Uhhhh . . . I'll give you Lufthansa, but Delta's had its share of incidents and Air France's record isn't exactly stellar. Yes, being stuck on the tarmac for hours sucks, but I'd take that over, say, crashing into the Atlantic because a couple of poorly trained pilots got confused by their instruments and put the plane into an unrecoverable stall.

Incidentally, if any of you had actually watched the video regarding the incident, you'd see that on the JB flight that was stuck for seven hours, the police actually DID show up, and when they did, passengers applauded; furthermore, there was an American plane that was stuck for the same amount of time and since it was an international flight, Customs agents had to go out and process people while they sat there on the tarmac. So yes, there was at least one plane from another airline stuck out there. Is that JetBlue's fault, too?

The report, if anyone had bothered to watch it, mentioned that the FAA is investigating complaints made against the airport as well JetBlue. The airport responded by saying that they had stretched what resources they had to the limit. So it doesn't sound like they had a whole lot of stairs just floating around. Oh, and the FAA is looking into other incidents of passengers being stranded at other airports on other flights. I'm sure JetBlue is to blame for those somehow. Or maybe it's Southwest. Anybody but the legacies, right?

Those things cost money and require compassion.. two things distinctly lacking from worldwide consciousness these days.

The problem is there's no stairs on the plane. If the airport isn't willing to send a tow then they aren't willing to send someone with stairs either.

Anybody ever hear of this happening in any other country?

No, because if it doesn't happen in America or involve Americans, we don't care and it doesn't get reported.

Well... there are.... sort of. Its the inflatable slides. If people are ready to "mutiny" and all go down the slides if some "unknown
" person pulled the handles. Or at least enough people so they didn't try to arrest the one who actually pulled the handle. The A/c would not be able to continue on until the slide had been removed and the door reset.

A true act of desperation!

They would figure out who did it and send them directly to jail, not even passing GO or the terminal.

There were stairs outside the plane. The cops used them to board. The passengers were bused back to the terminal.

Information is a good thing.

ninedaysjane said: "There were stairs outside the plane. The cops used them to board. The passengers were bused back to the terminal. Information is a good thing."

To begin, I've been reading your posts here. "Ustupidamerican" wrote this post almost 12 hours before your reply. The "information," which I agree is a good thing martha, was less available at the time of the post. So what's with the condescension throughout your posts? Why so angry at those angry at the airlines? Pertinent to this post, as one passenger stated (paraphrasing) in an ABC evening interview, if the stairs and police were able to get us deplaned after 9PM, why couldn't they have done it earlier?

If 7.5 hours in a small space, uncomfortable seats, with no food, no water, no bathroom, crying children and adults, a diabetic and an extremely uncomfortable paraplegic man, is not a situation that should cause passengers, crew, and the public to get angry, how long until it's acceptable for them to complain and become agitated in your book? Seriously, after how many hours stuck on that plane would you think it would be ok to complain? 10? 15? 24? 2 days?

Now, if CEO David Neeleman (that's info for everyone else, I bet you know that already since you're informed) was on the plane, do you believe they would have waited as long as they did? The anger from people here represents not only empathy with the passengers (like information empathy is a good thing), but a frustration with the airlines/airports/FAA for many, many reasons. This story is an example that allows people to vent.

And yes, we can have empathy with the passengers AND the many people, including the pilot and crew, who work for the airlines, airport, and FAA who likely were doing their best to deal with the situation. Perhaps even Mr. Neeleman himself was diligently working the phones trying to solve this apparently mind-bogglingly difficult and perplexing situation. Perhaps it was he who came up with the inspired plan to deplane the passengers with stairs and the 7.5 hours he spent diagraming solutions on his white board should be commended.

However, this was a FAILURE of the system. The public's complaints, if they lead to an improvement in that system, is one more good thing.

Hey, ninedaysjane, I just reread my recent post and I'm way more sarcastic than I need to be. I disagree with you, but it's not necessary for me to be insulting to make my point. Totally immature, apologies re: the tone.

Thanks for your apology. I do have sympathy for the passengers. I think that would be an absolute nightmare. I have sympathy for the crew and the airport staff, who were doing the best they could in a very difficult situation, and they should have had to call the police because the passengers couldn't act like adults and behave themselves. Yes, being stuck for that long on a plane sucks, but it's no excuse to stage a riot and risk federal time because you're tired and hungry and the toilet's out. Contrary to what someone else said, it's far, far better here than it is in many places around the world. There are areas of the world where you're lucky if the plane even takes off, if it arrives that day. In some places, if you argue with the crew, you may find yourself with a bloody nose or detained in a foreign prison. A pilot should never have to call the police because his or her passengers can't control themselves. In fact, I've only heard of police being called on passengers a handful of times, and nearly all of them were hostage situations or major assaults (Fedex 705, for example).

Blaming the airline is unfair. These sorts of delays shouldn't happen, but they're very uncommon in this country now, and in pretty much every case it's due to weather. That's something no one can control. Air traffic controllers answer to the FAA. They don't answer to the airlines or the airport. If ATC at JFK tells ATC at Bradley they can't take any more planes, then Bradley had better get ready, because unless the runway's out, that's where the planes are going. And if ATC tells a pilot to land at Bradley, the pilot lands at Bradley. Period. If they get to Bradley and ATC tell them to sit there and wait, they sit there and wait. Disregarding ATC can cost a pilot his job and his license. It can also be deadly. Google "Tenerife" to see what happens when pilots decide to blow off ATC in bad weather at a small airport.

And check this out, for more info from a real pilot about weather and delays:

Last summer, we were flying from CDG Paris to Warsaw via LOT. We arrived at the counter 45 minutes before the flight, checked in at the kiosk, and printed our boarding passes. Then we took our bags to the counter to be checked. However, the attendant there could not take them -- the computer wouldn't let him. He didn't know why. He tried calling the gate, but nobody answered. After a while, he said that we had to go talk to LOT. It turns out LOT has no representatives at CDG, but instead is handled by SwissAir (I think that was it). The SwissAir person basically said, sorry, can't help, after fiddling with the computer for a while and trying to call somebody. By this time, we discovered that we'd been given standby boarding passes, for the tickets that we'd purchased more than a month in advance, and that was why we could not check our bags. Call your ticket agent we're told. So we called them. By the time we got ahold of them, the deadline to check bags had come and gone, so we'd have to be re-booked. However, the LOT agent got disconnected (or hung up on us) while we were on hold as they "looked into it." Called back. The next person said sorry, you missed your flight, tough luck, your tickets cannot be changed. I went off on them, we were on hold again as they "looked into it." Finally they came back and said they'd make an "exception" for us and re-book us on a later flight. So after like 5 hours at CDG, we finally boarded a flight out. It was a pleasant enough flight at that point. Luckily our family in Warsaw waited around for us.

Awesome service, that.

Sorry to disappoint, but US service tends to be better than elsewhere!

Gotta agree with aeduko. I've been on JAL planes with chickens in overhead bins. Italian plane with party in the cockpit, Egyptian plane with goats in the back. Qantas was pretty good. Even AA to south america had great service once upon a time.

JAL with chickens??? Really?? The Egyptians with goats and the Italians partying in the cockpit I believe, but JAL with chickens??

so you think JAL is third world (moronic) yet AA is good?

they're business partners- look it up.

btw I've flown both extensively and JAL is far better.

JAL with chickens?!? I don't think so. JAL has the best service hands down.

Hostage situation? Seriously? That's an insult to people who have actually been in hostage situations. And you'd have spent the next few years in a nice federal prison for your trouble. BTW, you don't have access to the emergency chutes, genius, unless you plan on knocking out the flight attendants.

Oh really? Do you have a law degree? Did you consult a lawyer? Why in the world do you or anyone believe these people could file a criminal complaint or even a lawsuit for being held against their will? They are passengers on board that aircraft and it is the captain's duty and the duty of Jetblue to keep those passengers safe. If those passengers had been allowed off the aircraft and gotten on to the taxiway and had gotten run over by a gas truck or some other airport equipment, guess who's liable! Guess who will get fired! Guess who gets sued!

Also, To your logic, you're saying that if an aircraft is in mid flight then a passenger has every right to open the doors and take a walk outside because they need a smoke or they feel claustrophobic. You really need to re-examine your position.

Or grow a brain!

I'm saying they made a three hour rule to not let people stay stuck on the tarmac longer than three hours. That made that law precisely because of unreasonable issues such as the one they are describing in this story. Three hours seems reasonable to me. I'm saying if I was stuck on a plane for 7 hours on the tarmac, no food, no water, no bathrooms - I'd use any means I could to get off that plane. That is unreasonable, and yes, illegal to keep people hostage like that. It's time for people to stand up for their rights in cases like this, and not put up with it. It didn't work with no 3 hour law, and it did get better from what I read, but it didn't stop with the 3 hour law.

And another thought - I've seen in stories before people who lived in a house with no water and no bathrooms. The authorities will come and declare the house unfit for living, and kick the homeowners right out of it. So it's not OK to live in your house in those conditions - but apparently some people think it's OK to sit in that plane under the same conditions.

Interesting Joe, I was wondering how much was the airport's fault vs. the airline. Your comment caused me to go find a couple of other stories that also talk about what happened once the passengers deplaned. You're right, they should all be fined or whatever needs to be done to ensure they get the message that it's outrageous and unacceptable.

However, we all know $, or lack of it, is going to be the response of the airline and airport. Pay more for tickets or we can't guarantee even a basic level of civility during emergencies. Pitiful. Soon we'll be bringing our chickens and goats on with us while people ride on top of the plane so we can all afford the "luxury" of air travel.

Jet Blue operates the gates. I would be more inclined to blame them.

Jet blue basically had a bunch of empty airplanes sitting at their gates, all they needed to do was to tow those airplanes and move them out of the way and then bring in the full aircraft to unload, rinse and repeat.

Jet Blue is supposed to use THEIR tugs to move aircraft.

Jet Blue leases the gates from the airport. But the airport controls the gates. Also, looking at the map on Bradley International's website, it looks like they have gates that are not used (possibly in the middle of construction). I believe the airport has some responsibility in this. So does the FAA. The FAA is diverting the airplanes because of weather. The FAA is communticating with both the Flight AND the FAA personnel in the airport tower. So why isn't airport operations in the loop? Or if they ARE in the loop, why is the airport caught flat-footed? You can't have enough gates for the unexpected overflow. But the airport SHOULD have emergency plans for how to get passengers off planes that aren't going anywhere, and places other than the gates to park the extra planes. Airport operations - including Ground Control - aren't handled by the airlines.

Jet blue does NOT own any gate or tugs at that airport. They lease the gates and equipment from the airport. It's sort of like JC Penney's relationship with a shopping mall. Jetblue has their own employees at BDL, all be it a few since they only have a few flights leaving their per day, and the probably only lease one, maybe at most two gates.

On the audio clip the airport official apologized because the tug (evidently there was only one in service at the time) was being repaired. They sent buses for the passengers.

It's a bid sad, hopefully Jet Blue will compensate the passengers.

If they do get hit with a massive 77 million fine it will send a clear message to Jet Blue and all the airlines and hopefully significantly reduce the odds of this happening again in the future.

The reason they let the passengers sit is because they think it will save them money over taking the time to reshuffle and reschedule aircraft at their gates. They certainly won't save anything with $27,500 per hour fines and will stop this practice if the FAA properly enforces the rules.

Its only 27.5K per passenger, not per hour.

In a real emergency? The airlines and ATC did just fine on 9/11. Got 4500 airplanes on the ground in quite a short time.

Weather was good on 9/11. Would have been a different story if it hadn't been. Back in the mid 90's I spent almost all of a day on a plane trying to leave Reno in a snowstorm. At one point we made it out from the gate, but by the time de-iceing was done, the weather closed in again. We tried again an hour or so later and made it to the runway but visibility got too bad and we went back to the gate. Weren't allowed off the plane, didn't get any food or drink, because we were always "just about to leave." Finally, I sent a note via the stewardess to the pilot to either take off or let me off. About 10 min later they let us all off and put us all up for the night back in Reno. I and my colleagues were able to get a ride in one of the the last taxis out of the airport before it closed down. We spent about 8 hrs on the plane altogether that day. The airline did give us all a free flight within the USA.

Agreed, the only issue would be people who cannot deplane via stairs. I'm not an engineer, but I can imagine a modified cherry-picker could do the trick if needed. Hey Jet Blue, does the concept of a "Plan B" or "emergency plan" strike you as necessary? WIll 700+ lawsuits change your minds, executives and board members?

The theory is that Plan B doesn't happen often enough to warrant making it into the budget. It's a calculated risk.

Look around you and you'll find that emergency preparedness and secondary systems are missing everywhere!

I know Ed! The lack of "planning" is shocking; particularly since it's not really that difficult a process. Of course, turning plans into action when there is an emergency is a HUGE issue even for those who have plans in place. Now, the document I'd like to see is the budgetary risk analysis where the risk vs. profit is calculated and summarized for the company's decision makers. I wouldn't be surprised to find out more work/$ is spent on avoiding liability in these situations than on avoiding the risk itself.

easy to say to bring the stairs to a plane when there are some people that cannot make it down them due to a disability. Did it ever occur that the run way might have been solid ice and then you cannot get anywhere. Some of you should live where it snows and is icy with a blizzard or two and see how you handle it. The blizzard's can be nasty and dangerous to say the least.

See, this is what's great about having the entire clip available. If you listen to it, you'll find out that air stairs were available. The cops used them to board. On the other side of the plane, there was . . . another plane.

The passengers were taken back to the terminal in buses. There were firetrucks on hand, so hopefully they had the means to get the disabled passengers down safely.

The pilot did everything he could except lead the people off of the plane - which would probably have gotten him not only fired but arrested. I felt sorry for him and of course the passengers. I don't understand why the airport didn't assist these people and why it appears that only Jet Blue is looking at being fined. It seems the airport should take a hit too and some if not most of that 27K fine if levied should go to the passengers as they were the ones being inconvenienced. I lived for over 30 years in northern NJ so I know how nasty winter weather can be and if they had wanted to TPTB at that airport could have gotten to those people and done something to help alieve their suffering.

I'm heading from Texas to NJ this Friday I seriously hope and pray the weather has cleared up by then - believe me I couldn't handle 7 hours on a plane w/o a working potty.

John,

I've worked any number of jobs where management makes a dog and pony show of telling employees they are "empowered" to fix a problem for a customer.I've seen younger employees swallow this PR BS hook,line and sinker.Watch the older workers when mangement swings into "motivation mode"; the eyeballs roll, snickers are barely supressed, etc.I remember one of my peer group (50+) managed to express his opinion after a rah-rah speech. Farts can be timed. The manager was not amused, everyone else laughed.

Yeah they wanted to keep them on the plane out of pure meanness. It is not their choice to deplane them. Oh ye of little knowledge of how the real world works.

You have the mind of an Airline CEO!!!

Which is sad because he's only telling the truth. Guy will likely be scapegoated, the company will probably tell the media it's the pilots fault and that he was dealt with.

If the pilot does get fired,perhaps he should go public with the full story and let the flying public decide if JetBlue should have a new you know what torn.

Kudos to the pilot who spoke up!

Been flying jetblue since 2006 between ft. lauderdale and JFK. Jetblue agents and company execs are horrific. I always purchase their lousy travel insurance and it still does no good. until something goes terribly wrong, and I know sitting on the tarmac for some 7 hours is inexcusable and terrible, JFK and Jetblue will continue to take these matters lightly. I would advise anyone to avoid JFK International if at all possible. If you choose to fly through JFK, expect to sit on the tarmac for at least 2 hours!! The Jetblue agents at JFK all need to be fired! They have no respect for passengers and they certainly don't know anything abbout customer service!

After a similarly horrific incident in Detroit several years ago, at least one person sued the airline for "kidnapping". Basically, the person claimed that he (or she... I forget if it was a man or woman) had been deprived of life and liberty by the airline. Eventually the suit was settled, but, by all accounts, the case was not looking good for the airlines and it had them... ALL OF THEM... shaking in their boots!! If that precedent had been set (i.e. that stranding people on the tarmac is legally akin to kidnapping), you can bet that the airlines would figure out a way to deal with bad weather and getting people on and off planes when they are diverted.

The simple fact is that the airlines have been mistreating their employees (cutting pay, etc.) for so long that morale is horrible and very, very few airline employees are willing to do anything slighly above and beyond the call of duty. Nobody wants to work an extra shift due to bad weather and, when the airlines need some extra help for a day, those who are off duty are conveniently unable to answer the phone when the call comes in. At which point, the airlines just seem to shrug their shoulders and say, "well, we did what we could. We can't control the weather so this is not our fault". Well, I for one call "Bull****". I agree that the airlines do not control the weather. Nor, for that matter, do they control air traffic control and thus the routing of their aircraft. HOWEVER, they do control their planes and, if they are going to keep taking money from customers, they also have a serious responsibility to those customers. If that means, paying to shuttle some employees by van from NYC up to Hartford and pay those employees double time to do it so they can deal with a situation, then so be it. I fear the idea of government intervention (i.e. passing stricter laws), but I am not sure what else to do. The airlines have made it clear that, as long as punishment is a "slap on the wrist" or less, they are going to continue to run their operations on such a shoestring that even moderate weather issues cause their whole system to collapes.