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Subscribe to RSSTo be an "unruly" passenger these days likely means one of three things: exhibiting violent or dangerous behavior that could pose a security risk; engaging in confrontational behavior with the flight crew that might escalate throughout the trip; or, unwittingly signaling to the flight crew that a problem could develop en route.
The solution to each of these scenarios can often be to remove the passenger in question. That approach is clear-cut when the problem is a volatile individual who is exhibiting erratic or threatening behavior.
Last week, for example, a Southwest flight headed to Los Angeles was diverted to Texas when a man began screaming obscenities in the cabin. When the plane landed in Amarillo, the man was arrested.
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What in-flight behavior do you consider most disruptive?
The Federal Aviation Authority (FAA) has reported more than 3,000 unruly passenger incidents since 1995.
However, several airlines have recently booted passengers who were not necessarily obvious threats.
For example:
- Ricci Wheatley was removed from a Southwest flight from San Francisco to Dallas in July. Wheatley, traveling with her sister to visit their father who had suffered a heart attack, said she "broke down and started to cry." When the flight attendant passed by, Wheatley said she'd like a glass of wine when beverage service began. The attendant reportedly replied, "I think you've had enough," but Wheatley insisted that she hadn't had anything to drink on the plane. A Southwest spokesperson described the incident as a “verbal altercation with the flight attendant.”
- In June, Deshon Marman was boarding a flight in San Francisco when a US Airways employee noticed that Marman's sagging pants revealed his boxer shorts. Marman was removed from the plane and arrested when he refused to pull his pants up immediately. The charges against Marman were eventually dropped.
Cases like these have quickly become viral, raising the question of how flight crews define an "unruly" passenger and whether some fliers are arbitrarily singled out for removal.
Sandy DeWitt, a Miami-based commercial photographer, was one of those high-profile removals. In July, she was escorted from a US Airways plane flying from Philadelphia to Miami for being "disruptive," according to the airline.
The trouble seemingly began before DeWitt boarded the plane when she observed an employee at the gate who she felt was acting rude to passengers. With the intention of contacting the airline to complain, DeWitt took a picture of the agent's name tag with an iPhone.
DeWitt says that when she was seated on the plane with her phone powered down, the agent entered the cabin, asked for DeWitt's boarding pass along with that of her husband's, and requested that DeWitt delete the photo. DeWitt was reluctant to comply, but turned the phone back on and deleted the photo.
"I sat back down, put the seat belt back on and that’s when [a US Airways employee] came back and asked us to grab our possessions and exit the plane," said DeWitt. "I asked why and he said, 'Because the flight crew wants you removed.' "
“Once onboard, she was using foul and explicit language,” Todd Lehmacher, a spokesperson for US Airways, told msnbc.com. “She was removed at the request of the captain.”
DeWitt denies cursing and says the person who escorted her from the plane refused to answer additional questions about why she and her husband were removed. She wrote the airline to inquire about the incident and to possibly obtain a refund, but never heard back.
Lehmacher maintains that DeWitt was being disruptive and said that he did not believe the airline had contacted her since the incident.
There is little recourse for DeWitt; the FAA authorizes captains to remove a passenger at his or her discretion.
In 1995, the FAA began keeping track of "unruly" passenger incidents in which a flier violates federal law by assaulting, threatening or interfering with a crew member, or interfering with his or her duties. That can include a range of behavior, like a passenger's refusal to turn off an electronic device or keep a seat belt fastened.
The annual number of incidents has fluctuated widely since 1995. That year the FAA reported 146 "unruly" passengers across the country. That number climbed steadily until reaching its peak in 2004, at 304 cases. It then dropped by more than half and hovered just above 100. Last year, the FAA registered 121 cases; as of June 20, 2011, there had been 36 incidents.
Alison Duquette, a spokesperson for the FAA, said one possible explanation for the spike in incidents was increased vigilance around cabin behavior post-Sept. 11. "The only thing we can really guess," she said, "is you would think after 9/11 that people would have more of a focus on behaving correctly on an airplane, and people being more aware of presence of federal air marshals."
Though the FAA's statistics indicate that the number of disruptive passengers has decreased in recent years, those numbers don't include incidents that crew members and airlines don't report to the government agency.
Altercations involving a security threat or suspicious activity are reported to the Transportation Security Administration, and if the matter is serious enough, will be investigated, and possibly prosecuted, by local or federal law enforcement. Those cases also aren't reflected in the FAA's tally.
The TSA would not make the number or type of passenger incidents involving security available to msnbc.com.
Some airlines will not discuss their passenger-removal policies, citing security precautions.
Ed Martelle, a spokesman for American Airlines, wrote to msnbc.com in an e-mail: "Those guidelines would be part of our security program. We're sorry, but we can't discuss them."
Christen David, a spokesperson for Continental and United, wrote: "Unfortunately I’m unable to address any of these questions. There are multiple levels of security in place, but as a matter of policy, we do not publicly discuss security procedures or training."
Whitney Eichinger, a spokesperson for Southwest Airlines, said that a verbal altercation is a red flag for flight crew members. "Once those take place, there’s a certain point where our flight crew deems it would be best to [have the passenger] take the next possible flight," she said. "Anytime we have customers who are combative, we have to make the decision of what’s best for the customers."
Candace Kolander, coordinator for the air safety, health and security department at the Association of Flight Attendants, said such scrutiny of confrontational exchanges has not always been the norm. Since Sept. 11, flight crew members have been trained to identify disruptive behavior that could put safety at risk during the flight.
"Previously, yes, we may have been a little more willing to accept a little bit more," said Kolander. "But now if you think about the whole philosophy of what are you looking for ... the reality is you want to be aware of every passenger’s behavior. If it is odd or disruptive, you have to take a different stance. You never know where the situation is headed."
Kolander said that someone who appears drunk, for example, might be removed from the plane before takeoff if a crew member thinks there's a chance the flier could get up in mid-flight and cause a commotion or attempt to open the cockpit or plane door. If a drunk passenger injures a flight attendant, it then endangers the flight as that crew member might not be able to evacuate passengers in the event of an emergency.
"If you’re having problems with a passenger and they seem to be escalating when you’re at the gate," said Kolander, "you are going to think about it and say, 'I am stuck in that aircraft tube with that decision I made.' "
More from Overhead Bin:
- Disruptive flier diverts flight from Las Vegas
- Do you have the right to recline your seat on a plane?
- Mastectomy patient upset over TSA pat-down
- AirTran adopting Southwest's 'customers of size' policy
Rebecca Ruiz is a senior editor at msnbc.com. Follow her on Twitter.
Leave a Comment:
One who has not had a cigarette for 8 hours
Have not had a cigarette for 15 years....does that count?
I must ask, is 'farting' being unruly? I've been known to have a little gas now and then, and depending on what I've eaten, some of them can be rather odiferous. Since it is a natural function, like breathing and sweating, I see no problem with letting a few loose on a plane. I would hate to think I should get up and go to the latrine every time I gotta expel one.
I usually avoid drawing attention to my 'gas', just to make those around me feel more comfortable. I figure if they know who is letting them they might get unruly, and we don't want that. Plus, I view the guessing game of 'who dealt that' to be a good ice-breaker in tense situations. It really gets a good conversation going, and will often lead to long-lasting friendships.
Unless they have a fart detector on the plane that can tie you to a certain fart then no. And if you have to rip one out remember: denial denial denial. And yes, you can actually use the "who farted" question as an icebreaker and to form long lasting friendships.
Congrats, IReckon!
As far as I can tell, a lot of laws regarding airlines mimick maritime laws. When you fly, you really are pretty much at the mercy of the captain and crew when it comes to rules. This is designed in a particular way as far as I can tell because it has worked best so far when dealing with 400 people at 30,000 feet.
I don't condone the a-hole behavior of these crews and captains. Flying in this day and age is a s**t experience and we only have our own selves to blame for making the experience of buying tickets as if we were shopping at WalMart. Further, any money made hardly goes to the crew, pilots or even to shareholders. Airlines are a pile of garbage. Fly when you have to, and do it as infrequently as possible.
Eltex -- read up on Boyle's Law. It explains the gas.
It seems the majority of these incidents occur on Southwest Airlines. It's one reason no matter how many discounted baggage fees or other little gimmicks they use I'll never fly their airline. I'd be afraid some stewardess might mistake a "hello" or a request for a pillow as a "confrontation" and throw me off the plane or have me arrested. Whatever happened to customer service. It seems airlines have become the nadir of customer service, appreciation, and professionalism and in particular Southwest.
In the immortal words of The Replacements..."You ain't nothin' but a waitress in the sky"
What happened to customer service? Really, us Americans are so entitled, we want to scream, yell, berate people because apparently the world revolves around us. I was a police and geez the things people do and then later sit there with a straight face and deny having done anything. People seem to forget flying is a privilege not a right so quit blaming the crew and blame the jerk. If you can't tell who the jerk is, guess what?
Too many of these airline personnel have been on a power trip lately. Just expecting them to do their job is considered being confrontational. The slightest sideways look will get you removed from the plane. If they have any indication that you might actually expect some kind of service from them while you are in the air they will toss you off the flight. They want you to just sit there quietly like good little sheep taking whatever they decide to give you and that is it. If you dare to ask for anything extra they will say you are being unruly or confrontational. Passengers need to have some recourse against the airlines when they are unfairly removed from a plane. It is not like there is a lack of witnesses to what occurs, you are crammed in like sardines. Of course then the airlines would probably develop a book, like the ones casinos have of certain gamblers that are not allowed, showing passengers that are to be kept off their flights. When you buy a ticket you are forming a contract with the airline and by unfairly removing people from flights they are breaking that contract. As a minimum the airline should be required, at your request, to give you an immediate refund of your ticket price and any other fees you paid in cash if they remove you from a flight. They should also be required to give you back any checked luggage immediately.
Let me tell you something JS - in 9 out of 10 cases it's the moronic passengers who cause problems, not the flight attendants. I watch the way other passengers treat these people, who by the way are there for your safety and not for your drinks or blankets or anything else. Airlines need to raise their airfare costs and get rid of you passengers who should be on a bus or a train. The cost of flying has gotten way too cheap! And I don't work for the airlines, but am a frequent flyer who travels over 100,000 miles per year and see's how my fellow travelers act towards these people whose only job is to get you there safely.
Eltex,
As much as you "hate the thought" of having to go to the latrine to expel gas... do it. That's simple human common courtesy. You're trapped in a confined space with hundreds of fellow humans... don't do that. What's happened to basic manners in this country?
Kemu - Actually, part of their job is to get you drinks, blankets, etc. Yes, safety is part of the job, but so is serving the passengers. This is the part of the job that seems to have been forgotten. I am surprised that someone who claims to be a frequent flier has lost sight of that fact. Yes, there are some passengers that cause problems, but I have seem many cases where the problem has been created by the surly attitude of the flight attendant. I do not fly nearly as much as I use to a few years ago, but I have flown enough to see the change. I have myself been subject to this poor attitude on the part of flight attendants. I asked for a simple glass of water to take some medication during a flight and got nothing but attitude because I was asking for a drink outside of their normal drink service. I was made to feel like I was imposing on them to ask for a simple glass of water. Of course this as after waiting more than ten minutes after I had hit the call button for someone to even respond. The seat belt sign was on so I could not get up and get it myself, which brings up another point. More and more I have noticed that the seat belt sign is left on for prolonged periods of time during the flight when there is absolutely no reason for it - no turbulence, no cabin service going on, etc. It seems that all the airlines want is for people to sit quietly in their seats like sheep and not expect anything from the airline except getting them from point A to point B in something remotely resembling the original scheduled time.
Sam Soto, the word you are looking for is not 'privilege'. The word you shoud use instead is 'responsibility'.
kemu, it should not go without noting that before 9/11, flight attendants were on those planes for people's drinks, blankets, and other things.
Travis-1944 you`re the reason I fart when ever I can in public.I love that look on your face. I almost pee in my pants when I drop an egg salad bomb and see you almost crying.
You can`t buy that kind of humor even for a dollar!
Crying babies and babies not using their inside voice and babies not seated forward, on their knees annoying people behind them. Do parents think everybody loves babies. ThEY MUST. They want the rest of the world to suffer along with them. I see babies and little kids running wild everywhere and parents sit there like a lump on a long letting their spawn annoy the rest of the world. Take them to the toilet on the plane and flush them. Nobody will care.
Well Bart, bet your idols are "Beaves and Butthead". Bout as much class.
Nice, Bart. At least I can take comfort in the fact that you don't leave your mother's basement that often. The people in this country are becoming pigs in a big way.
Christieirene at least B & B are funny, unlike your lame comment. You carpet licker!
Travis, wow it took you a whole 24 hours to come up with the ol` mother in the basement trick eh?
I bet you two are the life of the party? hahaha
Agreed, it is part of their job to get blankets and cocktails and serve meals and snacks. I recently met someone who is/was? an airline attendant, at the mention of their job I said "wow" meaning sheesh I can imagine what you're dealing with these days - their response was something to the effect of they're not there to take care of me - umm.. actually yes you are. I think though that it's being drilled into their heads that they have a different role. If that is so, then they should be in a different uniform with a gun.
JS in SD is right the crew has developed a lousy attitude.
The discussion about passing gas is childish. Sit further back than the wing and the stench from the bathrooms is unbearable. The fun of flying is long gone.
If you fly US airways you can expect the rudest and the worst service you can imagine, they aren't even respectful to each other much less a paying customer. Boycott them every chance you get!
Remember the good old days of Pacific Airlines, tanned, young California girls in short shorts and tall blondes.....sigh....not alot of grumpy old men and in a bad mood passengers in those days.....
The Occupy protesters need to move to the airlines.
LOL lets start with US Airways!
yes, IRecon2012, and in those "good old days" airline tickets cost the equivalent of $2000-$3000 in today's money. No thanks. As usual, the "Good old days" weren't so good once you look at them objectively.
Grab 9 buddies and charter a jet if you want that level of comfort and glamor today. $20k-$30k and the era of the original Pan Am jet age can be yours gain!
I hate US Airways. They schedule their connecting flights too close together, on complete opposite ends of the airport, sometimes completely different terminals, which leaves you to jam through the airport lugging all of your carry-on items (usually a purse and a heavy laptop bag). This happened to me way too many times coming home for Christmas during college. The end result usually was luggage that never made it to my destination; and once, someone else's stuff in my bag. Yes, we should boycott this airline.
IReckon,
I remember a Captain crastly commenting on that to a tower where his mike was on and a ton of people heard it. Believe it got him fired.
His comment was along the lines of: 'What the hell are happening to the flight attendants they are all Gay, Granny or Grande'
Paraphrasing except for the last part, that was an exact quote.
As my husband and I live in Alaska, and my family is in Vermont, his in Arizona, we are not in a position to NOT fly, really we have no viable options. However, we fly Alaska Air, and I have never had a negative experience. Delta (Don't Expect Luggage To Arrive) is horrifyingly terrible, American Airlines is OK. I flew Southwest once and would travel by dogsled connecting with a mule-train before I would fly Southwest again.
Some of Alaska Air's flight attendants are "tough old birds", but the service is always good and they are really nice. By far the most professional flight crews I have experienced.
20k or 30k for a flight? Just buy your own jet.
I don't understand the issue. I've been flying several time a year for a long time and never once had an issue with any flight attendant. I have my routine. I get there at least two hours ahead of time so I'm not stressed about making it to the gate on time.
Once I get on, I sit down, listen to my IPOD or read my book until I the end of the flight. I usually don't eat anything. We're in the air a few hours; I really don't need that bag of peanuts.
The only time I've seen a rude attendant is when I was flying from Germany to New York. The male attendant was whining because he didn't get to work on the flight to China. Outside of that, I can't recall anything significant.
@ Carolyn G
Well, if you don't pay attention to the flight or the flight crew, and keep your ipod on the whole flight, it would seem unlikely you would notice anything outside of a nuclear blast. People are talking about the things that happen on typical flights. Usually, passengers will politely ask for an item or assistance from the attendants, and usually they get it and all is well. However, sometimes, passengers are out of line, or the attendants are out of line. To say that either side is perfect is just wrong. We are all human and we all have our off days...unless we sit like a hobbit in a corner with an ipod on 100% of the time. I don't know if it has changed ratio-wise who is wrong more often, but I just feel that flying has increased tensions among all people in the air, and that pushes people into more frequent altercations.
No I don't keep my IPOD on the entire flight, nor is it blaring and I don't take anything other than typical flights. For the most part, it's quiet with a few exceptions like a baby crying or someone sleeping passenger with sleep apnea or people talking loud enough for the folks on the ground to hear them. Of course now that I said that, my next flight will probably be a fiasco. For the most part, earplugs, IPOD or book can fix it for me.
I'm praying they never allow cell phone use on planes. I can see me sitting next to some ignorant idiot yapping it up the entire flight.
What I find more disturbing is how some of these passengers dress to fly. You don't have to dress like you're going to the ball but vulgar tee-shirts, pajamas, plunging necklines, daisy duke shorts and clothes that looked like you slept in them are pushing things a bit far. And please people, take a shower before you fly. Heck even take on the night before but do something to get a layer of funk off of you. Some folks have no self respect.
Bellejournee, was US Airways the only flight you had in your area? I mean if that seemed to be the problem, why would you use it too many times? Just curious.
Shelby,
At the time, US Airways was the only airline I could afford, and, sometimes the only flight I could catch after finals were done. I didn't use them a whole lot, just two Christmas breaks and, I think, one summer break. The best was Jet Blue, which I sometimes took because it was a direct flight (but both airports were quite far).
Oh, I see. Now i understand why you use them way too many times.
Anyway, I am lucky on every flight from Texas to California using mostly American Airlines, sometimes Southwest, Continental, and US Airways. So far I have not encountered any negativity from the crews or passengers. One time on my way home from taking care of my ailing mother in California, i was so worn out that it must have shown. The flight attendant from AA showed me the three empty seats in theback so I can sleep nicely. She helped me get up on my seat. I was ever so grateful for that lady.
That was really nice of that flight attendant to do that for you! Luckily, I never had a problem with any flight crew or passenger. I have a lot of respect for crew; a friend of mine & my sister are flight attendants, and my brother in law (flight attendant sister's husband) is a pilot.
Too much power (airline employee discretion) especially when they know there is no repercussions to them, allows anyone of them having a bad day, in a bad mood, or if a paying passenger happens to remind them of their 'ex' the ability to seriously infringe on the rights of the passengers.
I wish passengers were given the power to remove surly flight attendants, rude waitresses, bad taxi drivers, rough landing pilots, etc.
These airline employees seem to be getting more drunk with the power they have to hurt people. It's got to stop!
Drunk with power is absolutely correct! The thing that these jerks are getting away with is using "security" as a reason to neglect customer service. They aren't a gov't agency. They are there to provide a travel service and we are paying for our seats. So if the airlines do something wrong we should still be able to tell the people who's jobs also involve customer facing duties that we have a complaint without the threat of arrest.
I stood with my father at the ticket counter of United on Easter Sunday. We got there 2 hours early and thought we were being responsible. The woman (B%$CH) at the counter not only told us that they had changed my dad's flight to another time, but another airline. But, oops, they never confirmed so he lost his seat. They blamed this on their computer and said we had no place being upset because it wasn't a human error. Then she did admit that normal protocol is to call to confirm the booking which no one did. When I voiced my disbelief in her computer glitch excuse, due to the fact that they also failed to contact my dad to tell him he was now on an earlier flight with a different airline, they hag called her manager over and told me to leave the counter or else I would be arrested.
Now, I didn't cuss and didn't insult her. Though my tone was frustrated, I simply just contradicted the woman. And as a customer facing representative she should be trained to take criticism. But apparently the airlines now have an excuse to provide a crappy service and only the people we are supposed to write to after the fact are subject to complaining. That is just wrong.
Airlines suck
the answer is the boycott flying... TSA was started under the guise of making people feel safer so they would start flying again after 9/11...
if airline revenues drop like then did after 9/11 then things will change (and not before that)
Some of them are drunk with power and other's are just simple-minded and do not have the cognitive ability to discern if a situation constitutes a security risk.
you are so right Mitzy (3.3). these days flight attendants behave more like thugs than they "crew."
Waitresses in the sky are drunk with power...The captains are just DRUNK!!!
mitzy, this is not a TSA problem this is individual airlines who do this mess. Lolly, I too went on vacation one year flying delta who changed my trip without telling me and what I did was find one of those books that is located on the plane, wrote a nice letter and used their language in the airpassenger rights section and received a $100 voucher. Of course, the person I talked to was very apologetic and would have made changes for us for free since it was their fault. Still in all, we had no problems.
Speaking as a CREW member...I go to my planes EVERY DAY in a GREAT mood...I LOVE MY JOB! I get yelled at by UNRULY passengers that think because they checked their bags that they are ENTITLED to so stow the little camera bag or laptop in the overheads and SCREW the rest of the passenegrs that carry on rollerbags. I am 6'1'' I can put TWO bags at my feet and still have leg room....THAT is what US F/A's deal with! I had someone call me RUDE the other day because I POLITELY asked the woman next to him to stow both her purses under the seat in front of her for landing! I am SORRY, but you whiners are CLUELESS about what we deal with and WHOM we deal with. ENTITLEMENT is HUGE these days with passengers. And when a P.A. is made about turning off your devices...WE MEAN YOU ALSO!!
go by land...go by sea...it's longer but it's peaceful...
A Southwest spokesperson described the incident as a “verbal altercation with the flight attendant.” In this case FA was the pig.
Another idiot: In June, Deshon Marman was boarding a flight in San Francisco when a US Airways employee noticed that Marman's sagging pants revealed his boxer shorts.
Paranoid airline idiot.
People in the airline industry are spoiled brats, drunk on the power that should never have been given to them...
What constitutes an "unruly" passenger - anyone that refuses to bow to their power... same with police officers, doctors, public servants, etc... they all seem to think that the power they have been given means that they shouldn't be questioned...
The flip side of that coin are the people who think they know better than anyone else, including professionals, and question every little thing. Of course this attitude produces people who hate cops, doctors, public servants ect. because "who do they think they are, believing that they could possibly know anything more than me".
Lots of people like that in the world. Funny thing is, these people tend to be quite stupid and have the inability to think logically.
Appalachian,
Says the guy with his pants too low, says the lady with the short dress, says the lady taking a picture with her phone, etc...
The way to make things better in this country is to complain when it is warranted - otherwise you will be charged more money for less service, gee... just like today...
p.s. I don't hate cops, doctors, etc... I just believe that it is their job to help me - not the other way around...
Being a flight attendant isn't a scientific job. It's one thing to claim you know better than your doctor, it's another to stand up to bad behavior by flight attendants.
Narcissism, and/or sociopathy also can produce the effects of the know everything attitude.
I am not by nature "sociable", I do not enjoy talking with random people I happen to be sitting beside for several hours, or even several minutes. I find the vast majority of people uninteresting and not worth my time. As an unsociable person, I rarely make eye-contact. I am not confrontational, unless faced with impossible to comprehend stupidity. I expect the day will come that I am removed for "unruly behavior" or because I "scare" someone I don't care to interact with.
Someone yelling 'Allah acbar' in the terminal seems like an unruly passenger to me. That is all.
Anyone yelling any religious phrase seems unruly to me. Just think of all the street-corner preachers telling everyone they're going to hell, but on an airplane...
Ugh, the preacher junk is horrible at colleges and in NYC. They're everywhere. Then, if you try to talk some sense into them and try to have them view themselves objectively, they start yelling louder.
One chick in Brooklyn looked at me on a bus once then starts yelling god crap as if I provoked her into doing it. Sigh.
Anyone preaching any religion is unruly and obnoxious to me.
Anyone preaching morality based on any religious dogma is unruly and obnoxious to me.
I guess free speech is unruly to you... are you flight attendants???
They're not flight attendants...Waitresses in the sky...Old and stanky
When we were raising our kids my wife and I had everyone sit down at the dinner table with the TV off, and engage in polite conversation once a week. The idea was to train the kids to at least know how to behave correctly in a formal situation, even though we all normally just grabbed a plate and headed for the TV the rest of the week.
I have no doubt that any of them could simulate normal polite behavior at least long enough for a flight to get into the air.
I wouldn't be too sure. Just complaining about poor service - even in a friendly manner or "looking" like someone a flight attendant doesn't like can get you booted and arrested anymore. Heaven forbid one of your kids has a sticker on a laptop for a cause or group a flight attendant doesn't like or happens to be wearing the wrong shirt or wrong team's cap - any of those these days could be used as an excuse to kick them off a flight and the blanks filled in later by PR people who will swear to Heaven and back they were "cursing" and "unruly" to cover the butts of the flight attendants.
"Previously, yes, we may have been a little more willing to accept a little bit more,"...
We let terrorists change us, even just a little bit. So sad.
What makes an unruly passenger?Why an UNRULY AIRLINE OF COURSE!Take South West for Example!They have got to b the most UNRULY AIRLINES ON THE PLANET!
AGREED!!
They are easily the most obnoxious employees I have ever had the displeasure of having to deal with!!
Funny, I will ONLY fly Southwest because I'm always treated well by everyone along the entire process.
Hello Gloria. You have my vote.
Can someone please explain why the sudden shift in public opinion on the Vine?
Back in July, Deshawn Marman was the unpopular sagging "thug" who deserved being booted from a Southwest Airways flight because he dared to question the FA. Most Viners stated that it was the airlines right to do what they did to Mr. Marman. In fact, people blamed his parenting and said his fashion was obscene. Ironically, a transvestite, wearing only a bra, panties and stockings flies undisturbed on the same airline...in the same week as the Marman incident. The Vines reaction amazes me.
Now Deshawn Marman is a hero and Southwest Airways are "abusing their power".
Why the change of heart, Viners?
Thanks JM!
I wasn't there last time round, but I can tell you that if I commented back then, I wouldn't have supported the airline. I'm not a fan of sagging pants, but fashion has nothing to do with flight safety. Not in this case, anyways.
SPARTAN-501
Me too.
However, I was amazed when many Viners would say that the sagging pants were a hazard. Many felt that, in an emergency, Marman could have tripped over them and blocked the aisle. I remember replying that drunk passengers, which FA's create (most of the time), are a greater hazard.
I think the airlines, in particular, Southwest Airways, will learn through huge settlement awards, that you can not abuse your paying customers.
So Deshawn may have tripped? How could that be? The trend that started that fashion was hip-hop dancing. I have never seen any of those guys fall.
If anything, the airlines should be glad that Deshawn's pants were falling off. It made it easier for T.S.A.!
"Unruly" means whatever the air-nazis in the cabin decide it means. It may just mean that they're having a bad day and want to make sure that they're not the only ones being miserable.
"Unruly" is often used to protect the backside of poor quality Air service. When flight staff believes that you might report their bad behavior you can be sure that you will be considered "unruly".
It happened to me on an international flight. At the end of the flight I requested that the police meet the flight as I felt that there was a need to report the unprofessional, potentually dangerous behavior of some of the flight crew. The police boarded, and handcuffed me (I had been sleeping most of the flight)! Luckily I had the foresight to have gotten names and addresses of everyone around me on the plane, so that was rapidly resolved.
We sued the airlines, but because the flight originated in a foreign country (though I was arrested in the US) they were protected by some international law, and the maximum that could be collected was like $1,000. They admitted guilt, but who wants to take a case where the max settlement is $1000. so the case was dropped.
When you have a problem with flight staff DOCUMENT EVERYTHING. Get names addresses and telephone numbers of people around you! Take pictures, AND REFUSE TO DELETE ANYTHING. Get recordings. If you are in the right, this will make the airlines back down rapidly which it did with me.
I was on a delayed flight recently and - quite frankly - needed to pee. After climb-out, I went to get up but the seat belt sign was still on. I have over 3,600 hours as C-130 flight crew. I saw no safety and turbulence issue that came near anything I have ever seen as crew.
The only thing that kept the sealtbelt sign on, was that the flight crew were serving drinks and had the drink cart in the isle. The sign went off as soon as the service run was finished.
I tried to go to the lavatory int he other direction and was yelled at by the FA about the seat belt sign being on. The stated need to relieve my self didn't trump their need to run the beverage cart.
I was more polite then, but I should have loudly said " I have a bladder problem and need to pee. If you don't let me go right now, I will have an accident and pee on your seat. your choice." and see what would have happened. As it was I was threatened with arrest at the end of the flight for trying to persuade the FA to let me go.
You should've peed in the aisle.
Then you would not have to sit in it.
The smaller the plane the more officious the FA. Packed like sardines in a tiny plane and she was in my face to ensure that my purse, which was already on the floor under the seat ahead of me, was "far enough" in. There was no way to reach it as it was, and nowhere for it to migrate. I complied, of course. Then she babbled on forever....for 37 people there had to be more than five minutes of instruction. On a large plane they just run the tape and show a couple things and it's done.
The airlines need to do at least a smattering of cultural sensitivity training, for starters. The FA's are almost universally dumb about cultural diversity. If I as a nurse have to take this training every year, how much more do they need it, who see so much more of the public than I do? This should include such things as dealing with grieving passengers (such as the Southwest attendant handled so brutally). Also, any passenger should have the right to know exactly why they are being hassled and should have the right to know the name and ID of the person who is hassling or being rude to them. As it is, any airline employee is free to act in whatever manner they wish toward passengers without fear of reprisal.
That said, my experience with the worst employees has been on United, where the flight attendants are universally surly and rude.
After 911 passengers will be taking no crap from any one who endangers their lives during flight. Any time there is a real threat on any flight, it will become flight 93 over and over again!
They need to get rid of those tenured old flight attendants (old goats) a replace them with new ones.
New goats?
Welcome to the world of W. Bush's Patriot Act, and yes moronic airline employees, the TSA, and your local PD are way out of control since the PA was instituted
The attitude of airline employees, AND, TSA:
We can do anything we like, to include lying, to get you off the plane, or out the airport, get you arrested, let them figure it out, but you're out of way.
I've done 9 cross-country flights in the last year, and haven't been treated badly by a single airline attendant. Actually, they've been rather friendly. I've been flying AA and Delta, no problems for me. Maybe it's just because I smile, keep to myself, and usually engage other passengers in friendly conversation, instead of being an ass and demanding things, getting upset over dumb stuff, and being rude. Couldn't hurt, right? I've seen some people get all bent out of shape over stupid things, but then, if you pay attention to how people drive these days, you'll get a sense for the general sentiment. Most people act like they're the most important person on the planet, and that everything should revolve around themself.
My most recent trips were on AirTran. Yes, it was super crowded and we were all packed in like sardines.
However, being polite and reasonably friendly (overly-friendly could be suspicious!) goes a long way with the security folks and FAs. Smile, please, thank you, yes sir, no sir and don't deliberately provoke an issue.
That good old Catholic school training works!
Thank you. I've never had any problems with flight crew either. I've worked in customer service for 11 years and whether visiting a restaurant, department store, hotel, or flying, I always try to treat the staff the way I'd want to be treated. While some of the incidents described in the article are causes for concern and could obviously be handled better, I think the level of entitlements and self-importance of many customers/passengers/hotel guests is ridiculous.
Funny you should mention Catholic school. I was just thinking about that. I went to public school, but grew up with a lot of friends that went to a local Catholic school. I was shocked at the stories I was told about how misbehavior was tolerated. It wasn't! 0%! Sit down, shut up and stay that way or else! Flying with the Catholic School Airways...No doubt about who is in charge.
I agree, but both Delta and AA are by far the better Airline out there. I flew Delta from France to America this last summer, I flew couch but felt like I was in First class, they really took care of everyone and made sure everyone had everything they needed at all times and did it with a smile.
I flew US Airways this last time and they did everything but crash the plane, the power trips, rudeness and unbelievable way they treated their customers is beyond what words could explain, it really was sad to see this and even more sad to see the "U S" attached to their name as it resembles nothing of what America stands for or puts up with in this day and age.
Well said Matt! I was on an AA flight last December, sitting in Dallas on the tarmac while they de-iced the wings. Took about 45 minutes. The guy in front of me was pitching a royal fit, acting like a 2-year old, because of the delay. to DE-ICE the wings, for Gods sake. Many people today frankly have no manners, no patience, and get loud and aggressive over the slightest inconvenience. It's a trend you see everywhere -- store clerks being yelled at by shoppers, rudeness everywhere. I think folks need to get a little perspective, take a deep breath, and think - would I act this way in front of my Mom?
All of the #19 posts are correct. Yet they all miss a point. People fly because they need to go somewhere, not to pass a personality test. Not everyone feels like spending their 6 hours in the air 'shooting the @!$%#'! And too many by now have gotten 'in trouble' for ludicrous reasons.
Everytime I fly AA, I had no problems. Hell, we had to sit on the plane while they were looking for a cat that got loose. I thought it was funny, even though it wasn't.
Moonlighting, the adults who act like babies probably LEARNED the behavior from their moms.
too true magnificent -- and maybe a reminder to us all that our kids are watching our behavior, for good and for bad.
amen, matt- some people make a profession of looking for something to be offended about so they can feel big by going to report the percieved offense- these are the kind you have to walk on eggshells around in everyday life, not just on airplanes--
I'm a Catholic School kid too, and I've never had a problem (though, admittedly, I fly very rarely, and only short trips). Dress nice - not fancy, but somewhere between "grocery store" and "Christmas at grandmother's house" works. (I usually go with a polo shirt and cargo pants.) Be nice to people and follow the rules. The last time I flew - Southwest, round trip from San Diego to Sacramento - I had a nice, uneventful pair of one-hour flights. On the way home, I was sitting next to some people who were coming in for Fourth of July week (it was noon on the previous Sunday) and was able to give them all sorts of pointers for museums, beaches, etc.
Once was threatened by a gate agent with "Do you want me to call the cops". I replied "Yes" (shocked the hell out of her). When the cop arrived; he talked to her talked to me and went back to her and said in a loud voice you told the passengers you were going to call them by name, and you were taking people from the side. Either call them by name or set up lines. Stop taking passengers beside the podium.
I phoned central booking to get my seat reassigned. When my name was finally called it was with the same gate agent, who said you already had you seat assignment, I replied could't trust you so I made it happen. please print my boarding pass.