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Do you think air travel comes with a right to recline?
When Jeanne Gillert flies on an airplane, she rarely reclines her seatback “out of consideration for the passengers behind me.” But she’s sick and tired of other passengers who insist on reclining their seatbacks and ramming their seat into her knees.
Gillert, a program officer for a private family foundation in Tulsa, Okla., says she’s tried “gently pointing out to people that the reason they can’t move their seat back any more is because of my knees; not just that the chair is sticking.”
Sometimes that works. “Men usually get it, apologize and quit trying,” said Gillert. “Women on the other hand are horrible! One woman told me to sit up straighter, then got a stewardess to tell me it was her right to recline her seat into my knees and that I would just have to live with it or pay for a more expensive ticket in business.”
That answer doesn’t sit right with Gillert, who asked Overhead Bin, “Since when do we have the ‘right to recline?’ ”
Unless an airplane seat does not have a recline position — Allegiant, Ryanair and Spirit Airlines have entire planes with non-reclining seats — passengers do indeed have "the right to recline." But issues clearly arise around if, when and how passengers choose to use the amenity.
Anna Post of the Emily Post Institute advises passengers who wish to recline to be sure to do it slowly. “You can also turn to the person behind you and give them a heads up that you’re going to push your seat back,” said Post. “Asking them if it’s OK is nice, but if they say ‘no,’ you have to be prepared to honor their wishes.”
If the person in front of you pushes their seat back quickly, there isn’t a tremendous amount you can do about, said Post. “The best you could do is tap them on the shoulder — although that’s a little much — and say something like, ‘Do you mind just giving me heads up next time?’ ”
When faced with a rude recliner, another option is to request to be moved to a new seat. However, with planes flying very full these days, that’s not always possible.
Some travelers make use of the downloadable "courtesy cards" offered by the creators of the controversial (and on some airlines, prohibited) Knee Defender, a small plastic device that limits how far a seat can be reclined. One version of the card requests that a passenger not recline their seat; the other informs them that you will be using your gadget.
Another defense is to study up on seat pitch (the distance from your seat to the seat in front you) before your flight. Many airlines post this information on their websites, and sites such as SeatGuru, SeatMaestro and SeatExpert post annotated airplane seat charts noting which seats have added legroom and which seats do not recline.
You also might seek out a flight on a plane sporting a new type of seat. On its first 787 airplane, ANA (All Nippon Airlines) equipped the economy cabin with seats that do not recline but instead have a seat cushion that pushes out a few inches.
Whatever you do, try to not get into an argument or over the reclining actions of another passenger. At the end of May 2010, an in-flight fist fight over a reclined seat ended with Air Force fighter jets escorting a Ghana-bound United Airlines flight back to Washington-Dulles International Airport.
Do you have a travel-related question? Send it to Overhead Bin.
More on Overhead Bin
- AirTran adopting Southwest's 'customers of size' policy
- Guns, knives and grenades at the airport
- Southwest plane diverted due to screaming passenger
Find more by Harriet Baskas on Stuck at The Airport.com and follow her on Twitter.
Leave a Comment:
I trick I just learned is if a person reclines into your lap you have the option to open your overhead vent to full and point it at the head of the person reclining. either they will ignore it. or they will ask you to turn it off or move it. At that point you have the opportunity to ask them to move their seat back forward. IT works.
What if they clamp a Hair Defender on to the vent?
I personally would love it if you would aim your vent on me, I always seem to need more air!
But I never bother to recline my seat, so it won't happen to me.
Great idea, Steady Traveller!
Hahaha @ "Hair Defender," Ted.
Like the gal in the article, I rarely recline on flights out of consideration for the passenger behind me. But, I certainly don't expect everyone to be as conscientious.
Wahhhhh, Babies..wanna recline go ahead...so what
Are you the person who uses the back of my seat for a "grab bar" when you climb into & out of your seat? I have had my head bobbing like one of those dolls you see in back windows of cars!
As CALL ME CRAZY points out in post #10
There are seat designs that pivot the seat forward when the back reclines.
So you lose your own legroom when you recline your seat.
That entirely solves this common problem in a perfectly fair way. (Provided the Captain makes everyone go back to vertical when meals are being served.)
The Airlines are at fault for putting their seats so close together! After saying that ... it is very ignorant to recline your seat these days not unless there's an empty seat behind you!!!
The Airlines, knowing that they are creating a problem, and friction between fellow passengers, should do away with reclining seats!!!
Take the train.
It's much much more comfortable.
.
Jeanne must be a big women. I have absolutely no problems if the person in front of me reclines their seat and I am 6 foot 1 inch. If it bothers people that much, buy a first class ticket. If you can't afford a first class ticket, than loose some weight.
Blake, that was rude and childish. Weight has nothing to do with it, perhaps you are underweight? When I am sitting in my seat and feel like I have the passenger in front of me on my lap--that is a problem. The tickets are not cheap to start with--why should I have to spend another $150 on my ticket because someone else is rude? I try to get a seat in the middle of the plane by the wing, but that is not always possible. The airlines need to remove a few rows and give the passengers a few inches!
I traveled a lot with my last job, and unless the seat behind me was empty, I DID NOT recline my seat. I think it is rude to do that. I completely think airlines should do away with reclining seats for domestice flights, and in economy class. At least in business or economy plus there is more space between them. Just be thoughtful of others. Yea right, in this day and age like that will happen.
Yes the airlines ae fault because we, the people that pay the fares, look for the lowest cost for airline tickets. American Airlines added more leg by removing seats in the 90's. The results, ticket prices went up because there were fewer seats. They lost sales because people went to the lower cost carriers with the crammed seats but lower prices. You get what you pay for.
I try and buy a first class or business class ticket, when I can. But I am 6'2" and if the person in front of me reclines, it does really cramp my space and usually presses against my knees. When the person in front of me leans back, I simply start blowing on the top of their head. And I don't stop. If they say anything, I tell them that since their head is now only a few inches from my mouth, I can't help it. They ususally pull their seat back up.
And it is hard for me to use my tray table when they recline. Isn't it also my "right" to use my tray table?
Really? You lose like an inch of space and you feel like the passenger in front of you is on your lap. One inch? It’s all it takes?
Now this is being childish. I have never been on a flight that has not had reclinable seats. This is a small comfort that allows people to bear a several hour flight. As it is now, we are packed in like sardines and one has to fight for room on the arm rest, put up with people banging the back of the seat, body odors, noise from cell phones, computer games, all the rudeness people think they are entitled to force upon you because they are THERE! Being allowed to stretch back a few inches which is ALLOWED by the airline is just a making the trip a tiny bit more endurable. If it was meant not to reclined, the feature would not be allowed.
last month I flew from east to west coast - a not so fun 8 hrs with 2 layovers. I don't know how it happened, but on each plane (going and returning - total of 6 different planes) I was placed in the row in front of the EXIT isle, seats which do not recline. Of course every other seat on the plane, including those in front of me, had the ability to do so. Honestly it didn't bother me that I personally could not recline while everyone else could, the thing that got me was the dipwad in front who reclined while we were still taxiing! Still on the ground, prior to take off, the time when all seats and tray tables are to be in their upright locked position. Attendants came by twice for their preflight check, asked him to sit up, which he did and then went right back to recline-mode as soon as they walked away. I even tapped him on the shoulder, again he would sit up, and then a minute later go right back as if I had forgotten. It got to the point that I stuck my knee out (I'm 6'2") so he could not sit back, and when it got dark and I saw him snoozing, I flipped on the overhead light that shined directly on his bald head. I made sure his flight was as uncomfortable as mine.
This is such a ridiculous argument. I am a 1K on United and travel every week...some people recline some don't. You need to just deal with it people. The seat recline function is there for passengers to use and no where does it say that you can only use it when no one is behind you. If that were the case then seat recline would rarely if ever be used. I can't even believe that this woman complained about this and to those that seem to think that it is OK to somehow punish( air venting, knees in back) the person who reclines...grow up.
This whole scenario is a moot point. The fact remains that airline seats today do recline and people will take advantage of that fact whether the person behind them likes it or not. I have been in both situations and have flown hundreds of thousands of miles and no one has ever said a word pro or con.
Flying is uncomfortable any way you look at it. You can see the glass half-full or half-empty, just depends on one's character.
@UnitedStates1776
Which train do you recommend for New York to Paris?
A good sneeze solves the problem. Just bring a small feather and tickle YOUR nose.
It would never occur to me not to use my reclining rights and I have no problem with anyone else exercising theirs. What a bunch of whiners Americans have become. It's always me me me me nowadays. What ever happened to common courtesy? If the guy in front of you is squashing your knees why can't you tell him nicely and ask him to skooch forward a bit? By the same token the one doing the reclining should remember he's not the only one left on earth and go slowly on the way back. It helps my back on longer flights to lean back about an inch or two and a couple of inches shouldn't bother 99% of my fellow travelers.
I'd like to know how tall she is, too. I am a male, 6'3" and I am MUCH more comfortable when I can recline a little bit, as the seats sit so upright they are uncomfortable. However, when I do recline, my feet tend to go out further and my knees go down some, making it palatable if the person in front of me reclines. Bottom line, while it's less comfortable for me if the person in front of me reclines, I've never been able to NOT position myself so I can't fit in the seat. If you don't like the person in front of you reclining, then sit in first class where you have more room or complain to the airline because they make reclining seats. If my seat has a button to recline it, I WILL recline (and not feel guilty).
I am 6'6" with a 38" inseam, and I can tell you from long experience that flying is miserable. When the seat in front of me is reclined, it is all but intolerable. I cannot understand how anyone could think that they should have the right to make me very uncomfortable so that they might be a little more comfortable. It's not just an incovenience; it's painful. Plus, my trousers have been damaged more than once. I hate reclining seats and would choose one airline over another to avoid them. As I can see from the above discussion, it is all too easy to disregard someone else's problem, even if you are the cause. And please don't tell me to buy a first-class seat. Would you like for all of coach to be smoking-only, which you could avoid only buy spending hundreds or thousands of dollars more? Again, it is easy to downplay a problem when it isn't yours.
After flying a lot for work, the general (though not always observed) etiquette seemed to be...everyone leaves them up (or mostly up) for day flights, everyone reclines for night flights. Works pretty well.
Exactly, Bruce-308647. I am 6'2". Even with the seat ahead of me, fully reclined, I still have knee room and am able to easily exit from my seat. Are these fat and immobile complainers? If you are 6'6", as the guy mentioned above, then I understand his concern. Planes are not designed for giants.
What planes are people talking about. I've flown on almost every aircraft and have no complaint.
What's much worse are people and children who constantly kick your seat for 5 hours or leave their little window shade open when you're trying to watch a movie.
Bruce-308647 - Not if I am sitting behind you. My legs are right there, which prevents the seat from reclining.
Why is everyone focusing their anger on the person sitting in front of them and not toward the airlines who squeeze the seats to jam one more row of seats on the plane? That's who is really to blame for this.
And Maestro, much as I hate to say it, never fly a US airlines overseas. Foreign carriers treat their passengers like people, not cattle.
For all of you recliners: Just wait until you have the pleasure of a long flight with the head of a nasty dirty headed twit in your lap. I spent an entire flight squirming to avoid the oil and large white wads of God only knows what (Lice? Dander?) falling from the head of the "person" reclining back into my lap......Yes lap....These seats don't simply recline anymore......they lay ontop the lap of the person behind them leaving nowhere to hide. NASTY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
My question is this, "is it ever okay to fart on flights"? I am often gassy, and holding it in for a long flight is all but impossible. typically, my gas doesn't smell that bad, just slightly odiferous, though I had a stinker once every blue moon. Since it is a natural process, much like breathing, I see no issue with it, but maybe I am in the minority here.
Also, in the event a little toot does slip out, should you acknowledge it, and perhaps even wave your hand around a bit to help disperse the remnants?
You should pull out a tissue and wave it like a fan. Then blame the passenger seated next to you.
If they recline and it hits your knees, and they won't move after being asked nicely, I would give them a constant kicking in the back of the seat.
If somebody reclines in front of me and I can't move I have no problem jabbing my knees into the back of the seat (the more pissed I am the more I move). And when I get up out of my seat (not easy when the seat in front is reclined), I just take my time and jostle the hell out of it. I can't remember the last time I reclined my seat.
Ok, that farting thing was funny.
If you are reclining at all, it is inconsiderate and a pain for the person behind you. I love the vent idea.
I never recline my seat unless the seat behind me is empty, knowing that the back of my seat also contains the tray table for the passenger in back of me. On more than one occasion I have had the misfortune of having my beverage knocked off my tray and into my lap when the person in front of me decided to push back - one of them a cup of hot coffee. Each time I had to sit in wet clothes and a wet seat for the remainder of my flight - the price to be paid for the "right" to recline? I don't think so. And what about those passengers who feel the need to douce themselves with heavy perfumes, after shaves, hair gels and the like or those with who fail to bathe or utilize deodorant and want to recline into your lap with their arms raised above their heads. I've had them all.
Having the ability to recline, doesn't mean we are exempt from responsibility for our fellow passenger and THEIR comfort. Yes, sometimes you DO need to "suck it up" as someone noted above, but perhaps that should mean you remain upright in your seat out of courtesy to your fellow passengers.
Not one of us is an island unto ourselves - what we do and how we act affects those around us and we all need to be more aware of that.
If the seats are designed to recline, then I don't see how anyone has the right to complain (even though it is annoying) if the person in front of you chooses to do so. I try to be considerate and seldom if ever recline, and then only an inch or so. The airlines should be blamed for putting the damn seats so close together in the first place. The fix would be to make all the seats non reclining.
I am much more annoyed and disgusted by men who wear tank tops on flights, women who dress like hookers, and people who wear flip flops or take their shoes off. I don't want to be crammed next to your smelly sweaty 'pits, or smelly / dirty feet (and yes, if you have been wearing flip flops all day, your feet are dirty).
It never ceases to amaze me how people walk around in socks or even barefoot on planes. Those floors are filthy, and I've seen people even use the bathrooms in bare feet. Yuck- disgusting.
How are you being any less of a jerk than what you seem to think the reclining person is being?! You are essentially saying that their comfort is not as important as yours. Let's say the person in front of you is tall...uses the recline provided to him to get comfortable and along comes you who decides he knows better than the people that designed the seating in the plane...doesn't care that the seat in front was designed to recline...his comfort is way more important and he is going to be a jerk and just jam his knees "up in the middle of the back of the person in front" to keep them from using a comfort feature designed into the plane.
Who gave you the right to decide that your comfort is more important in light of the fact that those people are doing what they are allowed to do and you're just being a jerk?!
On the planes I've been on, the seats do not really recline all that much. StMiller at # 1.17 said it all. Some people recline, some don't. Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. Read a magazine, take a nap, work a crossword puzzle. I personally always try for a window seat to watch the view below when the clouds do not obstruct it.
Getting there by economy class air is NOT half the fun. But to dwell on the minor distractions only makes it worse.
That's like asking, "do I have the right to crop dust you with a fart, as I walk down the aisle to the restroom?" Well sure I have the right, but it would just be darn rude.
I had to eat a meal once with the seat so far in my lap I could not put my tray down - and it was an international flight and I had to HOLD my food. I respectfully do NOT recline my seat for the comfort of the person in back of me. When the seat goes down and you can't move, all bets are off. Fortunately I rarely fly these days. But I used to fly every year back and forth from Europe with 2 kids (and always had people say how great they were).
Dear lib50,
They were lying. LOL
I don't purposely put my knees there to prevent the person in front of me from reclining. They have no where else to go. And I never recline my seat. I tried it once when no one was behind me, and I found it less comfertable.
The tray is attached to the metal frame of the seat and moves independently from the back of the seat in front, thus the distance between the passenger and the tray never changes.
The back reclines about 15 degrees. Take the square piece of paper and fold it 3 times diagonally. See how it’s being in someone’s lap.
And I agree with vor-744944 – they were lying.
Oops! forgot to say that 3 pieces like that will make 16.8 degrees...
@spike1140, I don't know what airline you are flying, but the tray is very much attached on Boeing planes to the seat. I am only 5'4 and have had trays on my knees, food spilled off of my tray from rude people in front of me. I like to put my knee into their backs, but next time I will try the sneeze, airvent and the light in their eyes!!
Why do you need to be so rude to the woman that flies with her 2 kids? I don't know of anyone who "lies' and says kids are good. When I get off of a long flight and children were well behaved it makes me happy. If you are ever in front of me I will make sure you get lots of knees in your back!!!
I'm a road warrior. Only rookies recline on short flights in coach. And a short flight is anything from sea to shining sea UNLESS it's a red eye.
You can always tell the neophytes and jerks, they won't shut off their devices, they cram laptops into seat back pockets and they recline the first chance they get.
All you recliners and device addicts, please fly any time you choose except Monday morning and Thursday night. If you chose those hours be prepared to have your mobile jammed up your nose if you violate the code.
Road Warrior here too. I am gone three weeks out of the month all over the US and overseas. I try not to impose on my travelers even with a herniated L5/S1 and degenerative cervical disks. I do get free upgrades due to my points accumulated but these are not always available. Noting the company I work for does not pay for business class.
whattheheck-4350020
What type of airplane were you flying? DC3? Constellation? Comet? Kittyhawk?
Spike is correct, the tray moves independently from the seat.
Do your feet touch the floor when you sit down? :-)
The flight I was on was a charter flight and it was back in the 70's. The seat was so far back (I don't think they go back that far anymore) and I could not have my tray down.
When I did have kids and we traveled back and forth, my kids NEVER cried. I was always prepared and one time when I had a 2 and 4 yr old I had a 12 hr delay in London (I started in Dublin) and it was my worst flight but even then my kids were pretty good and slept some. But believe what you want.
mj-1451595 - That is complete BS. There is no unwritten road warrior rule about not reclining your seat and truth be told its the frequent fliers that flight attendants have to remind to shut off their phones way more often. The frequent traveler has way more gadgets than the non-traveler.
Also...a sure sign of a traveling neophyte is referring to yourself as a road warrior!!!
Seems to me that the consensus is that people who never recline their seats and don't mind sitting upright think that everyone should just do as they do!
At age 16, in 1972, I stood 6'4", and my knees were two or three inches clear of the seatback ahead of me in coach on 727 aircraft.
Today I am still 6'4", and one reason that I fly Southwest is because I can unlock and raise the aisle armrests on their 737 aircraft, so that I can get at least one knee clear of the seatback ahead of me. Otherwise, both of my knees would be hard against the seatback in front of me regardless of how much I sit up in my seat, and generally their flight attendants have been good about accommodating my needs too.
A few years ago on Southwest some gal who was intoxicated slammed her seatback to full recline with no warning when my seatmate had her laptop out, some papers out, and a drink carefully balanced on the tray table, throwing everything all over her, which was then followed by an angry confrontation with the gal and her boyfriend over just what rights a coach ticket buys. It was at that point that the cabin attendants forced the woman to pull her seat back up and keep it there for the rest of the flight, even though the woman and her boyfriend threatened to never fly Southwest again.
So I guess on Southwest you do not have the right to get drunk, throw your seat back to full recline and grossly impose on your fellow passengers, and then get all angry over it. Perhaps some other airlines need to make a note of this???
Cheap customers, who live in nation that embraces a market economy, refuse to pay for added legroom, and are MILITANT and COMBATIVE with fellow fliers, when it's always been true, that more space on a flight, will cost more. WOW !. Talk about a society of entitlement !
Let's all compromise. I'd be offended if someone behind me told me that I didn't have the right to recline. At the same time I try to be considerate when I recline. I'll frequently ask people behind me if I'm reclining too far.
We all need to recline ALL of the time until the airline gets so many complaints it moves the seats apart. I was on a 16 hour flight from Scotland to the U.S. and the seats were so close together that my knees touched the seat in front of me even when the person wasn't reclining! I'm 5'3"! Shoving seats that close together is a recipe for disaster.
When you're 6'4" your knees go right into the back of the chair in front of you even if you sit up straight. I had a guy refuse to acknowledge i was behind him and he kept going harder and harder back, really hurting my knees. i was ready to garrote him with my headphone cords....
brian-397693 Try being 6'7'' ... I have to be on guard because if it's done before I can react ... it's very painful!!!
And now the a-holes are charging for exit seats ......
I am short so it doesn't bother me if someone reclines. I usually won't recline if there is someone bigger behind me. It is just courtesy.
The long bruise running the width of my left knee is still healing from the asshat that slammed his seat back into my leg last week. How about having the airlines provide adequate ROOM?!?!
how about threatening to sue the person in front of you for assault if they hit you with the seat.
Keep jabbing your knees as far into the back of his seat as often as possible. Maybe a few (mouth uncovered) coughs into their general head area would work too.
aflane - I couldnt agree more with you.
Hatr - I am so tired of people suing for senseless reasons.
lib50 - How about instead of being a jackass you just politely tell the person in front of you that their seat is jamming into your legs before resorting to childlike behavior. Oh wait...two wrongs make a right...got it. -.-
I have actually NEVER coughed in anybody's face and the only jabs they get are when I try to keep my legs from going numb. I was just throwing @!$%# out there because in my fantasy I would love to do something. But I am considerate and a model passenger (or was when I flew). But I consider recliners rude most of the time unless there is a physical reason like height.
If the seat reclines, you have a right to recline it. How you go about it says a lot about your personality. I hate it when people stay reclined during meal service. It makes eating difficult for me, and I don't see how they avoid wearing half of their dinner. The one thing that really drives me nuts are the people who stay reclined until an FA has to come up and personally tell them to put it up. Once the announcement has been made, you no longer have a right to recline, I have a right to be able to escape a burning airplane. If you don't want people reclining in to you at all, book a seat in a bulkhead or exit row, or upgrade to Business/First.
Meal service???? What's that????
Actually, the reclining seats are left over from when the airlines provided more leg room. They did not change the seats, just added rows to make more money. They were not built for the environment they are placed.
Your logic is similar to those going through a door. A door by nature swings shut. Does that give the person before me the right to slam it in my face?
bencas - You're analogy doesn't work. The person has the right to recline their seat, just like the person has a right to close or open a swinging door...no one said that the person in the reclining seat has a right to use it in a way that knowingly hurts the person like your door analogy.
Also, most new planes (exception the 787) have reclining seats as well, so you can't say that are just leftovers from when airlines provided more legroom.
Don't the people behind you have a right to not have their knees in their chests? I am 6'2 (and fit) and my knees touch the seat in front of me without it even being reclined. If the person in front reclines, I literally cannot move. Why should I be forced to be completely immobile and miserable for the sake of your added comfort?
Bob - You have a right to ask that person to understand your situation, but that doesn't mean that they have to. The person in front of you may be 6'2 as well and is using the recline to get comfortable...are you saying that that person should be uncomfortable so you can be comfortable? Recline your seat as well. Also, I am 6'0 and I don't have the problem like you seem to have. I just put my feet under the seat in front of me, or it could be that I don't experience it as much because I fly United and use the Economy Plus seating which has much more legroom.
I'm only 5' tall and started flying in the 70's. When I first flew I had loads of leg room because of my height. Now I'm feeling cramped. If you've ever had your tray shoved into your gut because someone in front of you decided to recline fully then you can talk about your right to recline. On a lot of planes you can't even watch the video screen if the person in front reclines fully. Yes, it is rude but it is also the fault of the airlines taking away any available space and then charging more for it.
We used to run into this when traveling with my children when they were rear-facing in their car seats.
One trip when my daughter was young, we had installed her convertible seat on the plane and were all seated when the flight attendant informed us that we would have to switch the seat to forward facing because "it wasn't allowed unless it was a baby seat" (which is not true).
When I replied that we were using the seat in accordance to the manufacturer's instructions for the size and weight of my child (she was under 20lbs at the time) the FA then told us that we couldn't have the seat rear-facing because it was impeding the ability of the person in front of us to recline his seat.
At that point the person IN that seat turned to the FA and told her that he was completely fine not reclining his seat...I could have hugged him! :-)
FWIW, for those traveling in a row in front of a child in a rear facing seat ...it is not only safer for the child, and easier on the parent (because they are facing the child), but it also prevents the child from kicking your seat!
Since that trip we had a second child and when the four of us traveled by air we would sit our older child with one parent in one row and our younger child and the other parent in the row behind them. Our daughter didn't need to recline her seat and we could use the car seat easily behind her without comment from the FAs.
This wouldn't be a problem if airlines didn't cram seats together to this degree - honestly, they may as well just chain us all together and stack us like firewood so they can get maximum profit.
Concerned Mom,
I would gladly fly in front of you, you sound like you control your children so they don't spend the whole trip kicking the back of the seat in front of them. I bet you don't let them scream just so they can hear their voice, either.
I'm short, so the recliner in front of me is not a bother, it's the kids behind me who kick and scream and kick and scream, and the parents who do nothing when asked, because the child is bored, or frightened, or just want to throw a tantrum because they can get away with it.
Not a bad idea ... Ah-ha! I can see it now ...Horizontal, (honeycomb like) People Tubes ... Somebody needs to commission one of those HGTV designers to outfit a plane for the awkwardly rich adventuresome crowd ... (fun with sarcasm) ...
Pedestrian - they were talking about that! A few years back they were talking about having sections of the plane where there were no seats, just leaning racks. That would be awesome if we were flying to Amsterdam from Seattle then to Nairobi like I used to do on a monthly basis...in coach!
I would love it if they had a section where you could roll in and out of a specially shaped shelf. I can't get my back in for days after a long flight. Laying down or even leaning over at a sharp angle would work for me!
Sure, just slide us all into comfy little tubes with tv screens in the ceiling, lock the door and wake us up when we get there. If they want to generate a little extra income they could sell Ambien and depends. No screaming kids, no bruised knee caps, just sweet dreams in a climate controlled bunk.
LOVE IT!!! I might even fly more often with accomodations like that!
Why not just quit cramming so many seats into airplanes like they do parking spaces designed for Mini's when most people drive SUV's or pickup trucks?
Since planes are rarely 100% full there simply is no reason to cram the seats quite so close together.
It always make me laugh at Home Depot when they mark parking spaces on their lots fit for small compact cars when the most common vehicle used to pickup items at their stores is a crew cab pickup truck that needs a longer parking space and a much wider one.
I'm sure Home Depot's customers would find the shopping experience a whole lot better if it started at the parking lot with adequately wide spaces for big trucks. Especially near the lumber section! Especially!
If at Xmas time or peak shopping times they don't have enough parking spaces then just have them park in back or just further than the handicap spots!
Silly Engineers.
The parking spaces are a required size that the government dictates. Planners like it because they can count out more spaces in less area and be compliant with the code requirements for the number of spaces per square foot of store.
Planes are rarely 100% full? Have you flown anywhere in the last decade? Planes these days are almost always full. Less flights, less room, more fees.
Wow! I believe that the people who are so upset about the person reclining are being very close minded. You are so focused on your own comfort that you are not considering why the person in front of you is reclining. I have a serious neck and back injury which I was flying to a specialist in Denver to be treated. I would leave in the morning and return in the evening. I am a small person so tall people always sit behind me thinking I won't recline. To there surprise I recline my seat asap because of the extreme pain I am in when the seat is upright. I have had men slam the back of the seat with there fists even after I explained why I couldn't move my seat forward and that they may want to ask the flight attendant for another seat. On one flight I was injured and had to return to Denver a few days later for treatment at the airlines carriers cost. I try to alert the people who are behind me when I sit down that I will be reclining but that doesn't always work. I fly southwest most of the time and get on the plane first so other passengers end up sitting behind me. It is difficult in a crowded plane to say excuse me but if you sit there I will be reclining my seat. People are so sure that you are being rude when you recline, especially if you are small, that they feel they have the right to be RUDE to you. We all need to be a little more aware that if a person is reclining it may be because they need to. If you absolutely cannot tolerate a passenger reclining you should purchase a seat that has more room since it is everyone's right to recline. If you ask a flight attendant they will tell you that it is every person's right to use this ammenity and if it bothers the person in the back it is there right to request to be moved.
Nashville, I understand your point of view. All you can do is let the FA's and the person behind you know about your situation before the flight takes off. It doesn't guarantee that person won't be rude, but at least you can say you warned them. I'd like to think most people will be understanding if they're told ahead of time. That is the key, by the way....communication. Rudeness on flights goes both ways. If a person has a valid reason, such as yourself, he/she should try to be proactive and communicate his/her situation with the person behind them. What is so wrong with that? Everyone expects everyone else to understand. How can anyone understand if their not told? ESP? There's far too much ASSUMING going on in our society today. And we all know what ASSUMING does......
I can't speak specifically for Home Depot, but retailers typically rent their locations, whether by long-term ground lease or as big boxes became established through the nineties, renting the building itself. The parking is then controlled by the landlord, who must conform to regulations regarding the number of parking spaces required to service a retail building of such square footage.
Some landlords, either by a lack of foresight, common sense, or goodwill, will only seek to maximize revenues while complying with all regulations on their lot and will stripe to accommodate a minimum size only. They don't care what the average patron of their tenant is driving. It would be in the interest of the tenant to specify parking requirements in terms of stall size in their lease agreement. Otherwise the tenant has no right to dictate parking requirements to the Owner.
Nashville, your injury is unfortunate, however--an exception. We are speaking on general terms. Most people who are reclining their seats are doing so out of comfort not due to a physical ailment.
Magic: All flights I've been on this past year have been 100% full. Even overbooked. Fly 4 times per month.
more2bits - I think it may have been beaten to death already but I just wanted to point out that flights are rarely NOT 100% full. I don't fly a lot but when I do I try to make it during the weekday and at night to avoid crammed flights. Though even then the last 3 flights I have been on, there was not an empty seat.
I recline my seat for comfort. It is quite uncomfortable to not have my seat reclined (probably because of a bad back, though not as severe as Nashvilles issues) Why should I not be comfortable so someone else can be?
I recline my seat slowly, and if the person behind is on the tall side, or requests for some other reason, I will recline halfway and try to deal with that. I will not deny myself some comfort though (slight as it may be) just to make someone else comfortable... Give a little, take a little...
I just sit with my knees up in the middle of the back of the person in front of me. That way they can't recline and after a couple of tries, they give up, except for one obnoxious 4 foot tall woman that just had to recline. She also gave up. the in flight mags provide the cusionion.
How rude and inconsiderate. You are obviously one of the "it's only about me" people.
Pete - How are you being any less of a jerk than what you seem to think the reclining person is being?! You are essentially saying that their comfort is not as important as yours. Let's say the person in front of you is tall...uses the recline provided to him to get comfortable and along comes Pete who decides he knows better than the people that designed the seating in the plane...doesn't care that the seat in front was designed to recline...his comfort is way more important and he is going to be a jerk and just jam his knees "up in the middle of the back of the person in front" to keep them from using a comfort feature designed into the plane.
I guess we all forgot that it's Pete's world and his comfort is more important than anyone elses.
Have you ever considered that his knees had no place else to go? It is not like the person in back of a reclined seat has a lot of choice often. And you seem selfish as well. You are concerned with the person reclining and some of us are the ones with a seat in our lap.
Pete, you're awesome. I would sit behind you on a flight any day. Don't listen to these other schmucks.
It seems that this could be solved if the airlines didnt insist on squeezing more and more sheeple onto the plane and gave us back the legroom we used to have. Not all of us can afford to pay for business class.
boo hoo for you!
boo hoo for alot of people, don't be so ignorant.
Keep in mind that if there were fewer coach seats on the plane, each remaining coach passenger would be paying more.
Redesign the way the seats operate or give the passenger another inch of space between rows. I was able to recline my seat on my last fight, but the entire seat readjusted so that my knees were cramped and not the person behind me. As I reclined the back reclined and the seat slid forward. Then I had to adjust for my comfort if I wanted to remain in this position.
This seems like a sensible design.
If it reclines, I'm going to do it. That's my "right".
In the final analysis it's the greedy airlines who won't position the seats six more inches back so that you could recline comfortably.
Bunch of sissies on this blog. Just deal with it.
Jeesh.
How about some consideration for your fellow travelers?
I could call you a sissy for complaining about not being asked to recline - so don't recline, just sit in the seat in the regular position, and "just deal with it".
I could, but name-calling is counterproductive. I'd rather us all behave with some degree of civility towards each other - whether on an internet board or in an airplane.
jack, i'll be telling you sorry for the drink i just "accidentally" spilled all over you, the second time i'll probably just say you should have learned.
When the person in front of me rudely slams their seat on my knees, i just make it a point to give the chair a good jolt every time i try to shift my knees out from under the seat back. Oh and should that joker fall asleep, that's the best time to give them a good knee shift.
No, I don't have the right. But I do have the right not to fly on one.
This issue would be best solved by the airlines not allowing the seats to recline. They build airplanes with lots of seats so they can offer lower prices. If they put in less seats it will cost more.
Or use a better reclining mechanism, whereby your own seat shifts forward and it is actually your own space that is infringed upon by your choice of position, not that of the person behind you.
Or only allow them to recline so far...maybe about 4 inches...enough so that you aren't sitting stick straight, but not so much that you're in the lap of the person behind you!
stagger them. have the one in front of you be a few inches highe off the ground than yours is providing more clearance.
They could also do a much better job managing their fuel cost agreements and not signing bad deals with their labor unions, but that's neither here nor there..
I don't ask if I can recline my seat, I just do it. I have back issues and I can't sit straight up in the seats as it causes excruciating pain. The seats aren't comfortable in the first place. The second we are in the air my seat goes back for the entire flight, even during the snack portion. I'm not going to pay for a more expensive seat when the designers of the planes obviously took into account enough room for us all to fit, I didn't say comfort, because an oversized flyer can't sit comfortably. The seats were not designed for the obese people flying these days. If you are one of those people then I really could care less about your comfort. I'm not giving you what little space I have just because you hang over.
I'm a petite woman and even my space is unbelievably cramped by your choosing to recline. And my husband, who is also not a large person, suffers severe knee pain when he can't stretch his knees out a bit because of your reclining. So don't assume just because some of us don't appreciate your reclining that we are obese.
But you have a right to do whatever you wish if the seat is designed that way - no one said you have to take anyone else into consideration except yourself. If a more sensible seat recline mechanism were the norm, it would solve the problem.
As far as your back goes - a better solution for you would be to invest in a good travel support cushion to take when you travel. My mother-in-law does this and it has helped a lot.
I am 6'4" tall and don't know of a program that will help me reduce height. Do you bother to take that into account? Do that to me and you will feel my knees the entire ride. Maybe you need to get your back checked and your manners readjusted.
Hope you aren't flying to Hawaii tomorrow BigE...because that's exactly where my seat will be the entire 8 hour trip...and your legs will cramp before my back becomes uncomfortable.
The choice is not the person sitting behind you. It's the choice of the person with the ability to recline. You have the choice NOT to recline, but you'll have less space. I usually recline slowly and let the person behind me KNOW the chair is coming back, but I don't ask for permission because that would be absurd.
This isn't about consideration for a fellow traveler...if it were, the same argument could be turned right back around to the people complaining.
I`m 6`5" and for me I try my best too get bulk head so I can avoid a moron(too put it lightly backing into my knees)during a flight.So knowing i`m not a moron out of consideration if there is a person sitting behind me I never recline I will do my best by staying upright during the whole flight because that`s the type of guy I am Considerate.It may maybe uncomfortable but I suck it up no matter if the flight is an hour and a half or three hours staying upright is the right thing too do.
Not reclining is not being "considerate". It's your choice...as is mine to recline, so quite patting yourself on the back.
That's got to be the biggest crock of @!$%# I've heard today.
+1
Another reason why I no longer fly anywhere. From reading these posts, I am very glad.
truth. very glad indeed.
I am 6'5" tall. When I fly, most in front of me try to recline even though my knees are already touching their seat-back. With nowhere to go, I firm my position to resist their attempt to recline. Some immediately identify what's going on and give up. Others just keep trying to push back until they figure it out. Crazy thing is, some even have the nerve to look indignant - like it's their right or something. Welcome to the "it's all about me" attitude of far too many in this country; the hell with everyone else. Ain't it fun???
That's because it is their right to use the seat as it is equipped as they paid for it for an allotted amount of time. I am not saying they have a right to be rude about it, but if you are going to start the fight then be prepared to finish it. The person in front of you has every right to be indignant especially if they need to be comfortable with the seat back. When I get into my seat I have no idea that your knees are touching the back of it. It would be totally acceptable to me that you tell me that I can't recline my seat and give me a chance to to tell you I am fine with that.
If you take your carry on bag and move it up against your seat under your legs after take off so you can extend you legs under the seat in front of you. It will get your knees out of the way of the reclining seat. I am six foot with long legs it works fine for me. But then I always bring on bags/backback that easly fits in the required areas. Not like many that bring on bags way too large.
This may work for some. But I don't bring any carry-on luggage, so nothing to move. Besides that, there is no room to extend my legs under the seat ahead of me (I fly coach).
How about this? If you have long legs and would prefer that the person in front of you not recline, exercise preemptive courtesy and just ask that person nicely if they wouldn't mind not reclining. I'm 5'7" tall, and I generally recline but only 1/3 to 1/2-way as a courtesy to the person behind me. It's really difficult to catch some zzz's in the upright position because you get a lot of jerky head nods which isn't good for your spine which is hell for business travelers like me. Once again, be assertive in life. Most people are cool and will accommodate your request, but be prepared for that one person. If denied, ask that person if they would give you a heads up when they recline. That puts the ball of courtesy in their court.
I appreciate what you're saying Joe, but I was raised to be pro-actively considerate of those that may be impacted by my actions. Some may consider this approach old school courtesy, but it has never gone out of style. I feel sorry for those who never learned this art-form; it should be part of Parenting 101. It was for me as a child, and it was when we raaised our 2 children to adulthood. This may not be you Joe, but we live in a world where far too many have to ask for relief in all sorts of situations rather than being considered first by those who initiate the action that affects them. "Everything is okay until I find out I hurt someone." I don't understand that thinking and I never will.
I am a 6'1" woman with a 37" inseam (yes, buying pants is an adventure, but that's another story) and obviously I prefer that the person in front of me not recline their seat, but I also realize that they may want to recline, so while we're getting settled before takeoff I politely ask the person in front of me if he/she would mind letting me know when they're about to recline their seat, as I have very long legs and would appreciate the opportunity to get my knees out of the way. It's always worked well for me--either the person turns around & gives me a heads up, or they just don't recline their seat.
If I recline, then you can recline, but only if I recline...Because I am your superior...savi
I think you are one inconsiderate sob.
I spent 13 hrs on a non-stop flight from Frankfurt Germany to SIngapore with the family of 3 in the row infront of my daughter and 3 yr old grandson and me. All three of this inconsiderate family had their seats FULLY reclined. Made it really difficult to take my grandson out of our row (I was in the window seat as my daughter gets majorly airsick and needs to be in the isle seat) to use the bathroom. When I asked if they would put their seatbacks up a little to make it easier for us to move, we were snarled at. And to top it off, this flight went through the worst turbulance...even the Stews and Stewardess were dealing with their own airsickness.
In case you might want to know, NO we do not recline our seat backs, and if we do, we do so slightly and always let the folks behind us that we are going to do so.
What a useless article. I suppose this woman expects everyone to sit ramrod straight for an entire flight. The person behind you (except the unlucky person in the back row), can also recline their seat.
The option to do so rests with the person in the seat who paid their fair. You chose to travel from Germany to Singapore--that's a LONG HAUL FLIGHT. It's you who are being inconsiderate for being annoyed at the passengers in front of you.
Because you brought small children on board, I suppose you believe you are entitled to everyone tolerating every whine, whimper and kick from your little ones...but the people in front of you are inconsiderate?
You can't be serious. It's an airplane, we all know the deal when we board, that you'll be sharing a space. I have to politely ignore rambunctious children, so I bring headphones, and I'm careful to help people with baby bags etc, on and off the plane if I can. It makes for a good neighbor. You getting bent out of shape at someone for wanting to be comfortable on a long haul flight is beyond ridiculous.
If you asked ME politely to put my seat-back up when you got in and out of the row, I'd comply...but it would go right back to fully reclined afterward. Your request is otherwise unreasonable.
MarineDoc: If I recline, I do not get back the leg room I lost to the person who reclined in front of me. That is my issue. My legs don't fit in the space. I am not fat (6'2, 180 pounds). The airlines designed the seat pitch for people that are 5'7. Why don't you think a little bit about your fellow human beings and have some resemblance of courtesy?
Hey MarineDoc: My granson was 3 yrs old and BTW, did NOT cry, nor fidgit, and fortunately slept most of the way. And, when he was away, played quietly with his toys or colored in a coloring book or watching the children's films on the screen. If he were to kick, as an "old fashioned" grandma, I would not have tolerated it.
So you think it is OK for someone else to be comfortable on a long haul flight at the discomfort of those other behind them? Again, you are one inconsiderate SOB.
Just had an idea. Bring a clove of garlic to chew when you do the "blow-on-the-guy's-head" trick.
Robin,
As someone who is NOT BOTHERED by the person in front of me reclining, I don't see your point. I really don't care if you don't like the seat in front of you reclined back 3-4 inches. I've paid for my seat, I am going to recline in my seat...as that space into which I've reclined is part of the price of my seat. Now if you'd like to offer me the cost of that 4 inches...I'll gladly take you up on your offer...otherwise quit whining, or don't fly. The choice is yours.
The only one being inconsiderate is you for complaining about someone else getting comfortable. Why don't you ask the flight attendant next time to ask the person to not recline...you'll get a funny look from both people.
Getting angry at me for reclining is like being morbidly obese and getting indignant because the person setting next to you does NOT want to put the armrest up and share his seat with your extra girth.
Please don't fly if you can't stop whining and being so self-centered.