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Subscribe to RSSLarge passengers may soon have to buy an extra seat when flying on AirTran Airways.
The airline is being integrated into Southwest Airlines and, beginning March 1, 2012, will adopt Southwest’s current “customers of size” policy.
According to AirTran’s recently updated contract of carriage, air travelers will be required to purchase an additional seat if the passenger, "in the carrier's sole discretion, encroaches on an adjacent seat and/or is unable to sit in a single seat with the armrest lowered.”
That matches the wording of Southwest Airline’s customers of size policy, which states: “Customers who encroach upon any part of the neighboring seat(s) should proactively book the needed number of seats prior to travel. The armrest is considered to be the definitive boundary between seats and measures 17 inches in width.”
The width of coach seats on AirTran’s current fleet of airplanes is 18 inches.
Previously, AirTran did not have a specific “customer of size” policy in its contract of carriage and, instead, gave gate staff and crew members authority and responsibility to work out seatmate-of-size solutions on a case-by-case basis.
“Did air travelers who are large pick AirTran over Southwest because AirTran didn’t have such a strict policy? I think they looked at the ticket price,” said Rick Seaney, CEO of FareCompare.com.
“AirTran is basically becoming Southwest,” Seaney said. “The two airlines are merging their boarding process, their fleets, their award program and their attitude. So this is just a normal course of business.”
George Hobica, president of AirFareWatchdog.com, said he's not surprised to see AirTran adopting Southwest's policies.
“It’s probably a good thing for the comfort of all," he said. "But I wonder if [the policy] is observed more in the breach than the practice. I can't tell you how many times I've seen passengers that are way too big to fit in one seat getting a free pass.”
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This appears to be directed at overweight flyers, which seems a questionable policy since more than half of North Americans are overweight. Also, they will need to enforce this on people wiht broad shoulders as well. I am a small framed woman and my shoulders measure 19" across. Most men are well over that.
I believe they are speaking of the super fatties. Seems fair to me. When you send a package by air, you're charged by size and weight.
Comment # 1 deleted. Trollish remark that is just a terrible way to start a discussion.
I can easily fit into a 17 inch seat -- as long as you don't consider my upper body. Like Electa, my arms ARE gong to encroach on another seat unless I sit with my upper body twisted sideways. I'm afraid no amount of weight loss is going to reduce my broad shoulders. While many of us could lose a few pounds or more, let's shine a light on the other culprit as well, the airlines who think we are sardines.
Kyleortonsarm, what a shame they don't charge extra for being pigheaded. You'd have to pay quadruple.
I'm 5.4" 120LB, think I need a discount.
I don't think overweight customers should have to pay extra. Just make them sit next to each other so they don't have to take up half of my seat. I'm not trying to be mean as I love and care about many overweight people. However, I am a bit selfish on an already cramped flight. I'm squished even if NO ONE sits next to me! So, have the customers of size sit next to each other and then I could care less..
This not only for over weight people but for those body builders and linebacker type people. I have to agree with this policy. I mean, if I'm going to pay several hundred of dollars for my seat, I'm not interested in sharing it with my neighbor.
More reasons not to fly...go figure.
This topic keeps coming up and the first impulse is to blame fat people. Remember, airlines have been reducing their seat sizes. This fact seems to be forgotten. Blame the airlines for that, and for not catering to all of their customers, fat or thin. Most fat people and larger than average people would be happy to pay extra for larger seats if only they were available and would be so at a reasonable price.
What I never see mentioned on these seat size issues with airlines, is that the jets themselves have a very finite, unchangeable, interior space. If seat sizes are increased (and I'm not necessarily against this), then there will be room for fewer seats. So ticket prices will go up. The expenses of a flight are the same no matter how many seats (tickets sold). So fewer seats, less revenue, increased ticket prices. If people are good with this, then fine. But posters seem to think that increased seat size is just that easy. It isn't. Everyone will pay more if seat size increases and there are, therefore, fewer seats. You can't increase the size of a jet by adding on, like you can with a land based building.
I get your point, I really do. But the fact remains that the airlines do bears some guilt in creating their own problem then wanting other people to pay for it. On my last flight, in a row of three, all of us were slim, not even close to overweight, and we were still sitting on top of each other. I just want an airline just once to say "Yeah, we're screwing you." and be honest about it. Because they are.
Maybe they should require "People of size" to sit in a seat at the check -in counter (kind of like the baggage size-checker), and then determine what to charge them.
Then, they could offer several larger seats, such as 1.5 times a normal seat (at a correspondingly higher price) to people who need them. Planes are flown according to the WEIGHT of the people, not the NUMBER of people. So they could offer larger seats for 50 % more instead of requiring 2 seats for 100% more
OK, that problems solved, NEXT!
Wrong. Planes are flown by the number of tickets sold (usually a 1-1 ratio to the number of people). If it was weight, we'd all be standing on a scale at the ticket counter and charged accordingly. There is a weight limit, but the number of seats (and average weight of people) is usually less than the limit. First to go is checked bags or freight if weight becomes an issue. I do think seat size should be increased some, it's awful for everybody. But we would then have to pay more. Fewer seats, fewer tickets sold. If you're all fine with that, me too.
I can think of worse fates than sitting next to a wide person. On my flight a few days ago, the guy to my left was wide-bodied: No problem. He was using an I-Pad. No problem. Then he opened a game that he played by vigorously sweeping his finger across the screen. For the rest of the flight, he jabbed me in the arm with his elbow about 800 times. Even the person on my right was rolling her eyes. The whole row of seats was shaking. Given those with bad breath or body odor, loud snorers, messy eaters, incessant talkers, and the rest of the bunch, I'd take a well-mannered fat person any time. If the airlines aren't going to penalize the bad-mannered, why penalize the wide-bodied?
I agree with Hugh - let the larger person purchase a seat that is wider, but not in Business Class, for 50% more. Put 8 to 12 of these seats in the Economy section and make the individual PROVE they deserve the seat and not give it to some petite, slender person who just wants to buck the system.
I think everybody ought to pay by weight anyway... Just like shipping freight.. $ per pound.. you weigh more, you pay more...and then the computer can group or alter the seating based on passenger weight.. two overweights in 3 seats or one overweight and 1 underweight in three seats .. whatever...
Good thing (for me) that they don't go by "size of your junk", or I'd have to buy 3 seats.
:)
I am glad to see all these heifers be required to pay up. I can't begin to describe how much I hate sitting next to them. Go Greyhound or even better--walk!
Several years ago I was forced to sit next to a very tall man with arms and elbows that could have reached across the aisle. From Philly to DFW he harassed and condemned me for taking "his" space while his knobby elbow was in my face. I was afraid of him. A crew member said there were no other seats. I found out at DFW, there had been 4 seats empty. A year or so later, the cabin crew stuffed me and the largest man I have ever seen into two seats on purpose. Then they laughed, well, everyone on the plane, laughed. Poor man, from OKC to Phoenix, neither he nor I could breathe without hurting the other. I am a small round woman who fits in the very narrow seats. I have stopped flying anywhere. Why pay to have someone insult and humiliate you by such behavior? There are better ways to travel.
This is discrimination no matter how they spin it. The airlines bear the brunt of the blame because they can't cater to their passengers. They are being greedy and demeaning people. They already charge people for EVERY bag (aside from some like southwest) and tax and fee everything! This is JUST like paying more for being gay or paying more for not being the "normal". It's wrong.
This whole thing is because as stated by others, the airlines became greedy & reduced the size of their seats. I am not the smallest person & could loose some weight, but I have also sat next to men that thought it their right to ready their USA Today with arms stretched completely across MY space...been sat next to a child who spilled their food & drink on my lap, men who thought their junk was so big that they couldn't possibly close their legs in further & both men & women who snored in my face. To me this encroached on my seat/space as well. And what about those that bring such a large carry-on bag that they take up more than their share of overhead space...or those that talk, laugh & get up down so much as to disturb everyone's "space." And of course, let's not forget those that fly sick & germ up the entire plane. If we are going to get into this & charge folks more for lapping over a seat so small that a normal size person can't possibly fit unless they don't move or breath - then the airlines/flight attendants need to monitor all these other infringements on personal space as well!
Well that's too bad FATSO!! No put that donut down.
If you take up more than one seat than you have to pay for more than one seat. Makes sense. I don't understand why people think they should be getting more than they paid for and expecting strangers to pick up the rest of the tab. That's just crazy.
How is this "controversial"? If you take up two seats, you should pay for two seats. It's not fair for those who only get to use half the seat they've paid for because they are being smothered by "customers of size."
what do we do about the smell? it travels beyond the seat(s)....
Fat people are disgusting. They shouldn't even be allowed on airplanes.
I don't care what part of your body is encroaching on my paid for space--move it or get two seats to accommodate your size---so far as leaning back---yes if the seat leans I lean---when the seat doesn't lean then I don't lean--very easy--very simple.
I of large stature, understand that I do take up more than my share. I try not to infringe on any other persons space. I have found that each plane is different in its configuration and try to fly only on MD-80 planes that have 2 rows on one side and 3 rows on the other. Normally I travel with my wife and only she has to put up with my biggness, she still loves me though. I can whine about sizes of airplanes all I want, but they will not listen, they only listen to the cash register. So it is up to me to plan in advance and work around my size.
+1 on seating "people of size" together. Saw a corpulant couple sit in diff rows so they wouldn't have to squish each other, just the poor schlub stuck next to them. TG it wasn't me.
As for the dude with the elbows? I'd be doing it back to him, then he can get the flight person involved and they can see he's a Lurch and maybe get you moved.
Also, another peeve - cheap parents who claim their kid is under 2, but really isn't then the little darlings kick the back of my seat while on the parent's lap.
I think they should pay extra for another seat, however, I have found that loading up on beans before a flight provides ammunition to fight back. I stink it up so bad the tubs of lard will ask to be moved elsewhere. I also think putting the fatsos side by side is the way to go. That way they can experience our wonderment and smell.
As a "customer of size" (whose shoulder width is more of a problem than belly) I have found the Southwest policy to be very fair and I am glad that Air Trans is adopting it. If I make people uncomfortable, I am uncomfortable too- it is no fun for anyone to be squished together. I do not mind purchasing the second seat, especially since the fare may be refunded if the plane is not full. Actually, people are often happy when they take the other seat in the row and I tell them that by the way, they are more than welcome to share "my" middle seat and stretch out!
(Although if I could identify some of the crude posters above there would be NO sharing- there are some sick people out there!)
I am a customer of substance and regularly proactively book two seats . I don't want to be squished up against your skinny posteriors any more than you want to be squished up against my fat tushy.
Yet, I've been argued with by airline reps who insist I don't have to do that AND I've been asked repeatedly to give up my second seat because the airline oversold and have passengers who are insisting they have to be on that flight. I've had airline gate agents get downright angry and argue that I have no right to deny another paying passenger. What the frack? I pay for two seats because I want to be comfortable, and the airline wants to intimidate me into giving up my extra room and make me be squished on a long haul because they can't manage their inventory?
I did that once, then had to listen to the passenger who was forced in next to me complain the whole way about being packed in next to me and if they had any choice, they would have waited. Not a "gee, thanks for giving up your seat so I could get to my appointment" or anything.
Never again. I buy a second seat for my comfort and I'm keeping it. If you don't get on a flight because too many of us have bought that middle seat for space, yell at the airline for not dealing with the problem.
(BTW, there is one simple fix for a good majority of the customers like me. If the airlines would only make the armrests against the side fuselage on the window seats moveable, that would give most customers of substance enough room to lower the armrest between them and the middle seat and not crowd the middle seat. There's often 3-4 inches there that could make the difference.)