It's not a violation of anyone's civil rights because 1) you have consented to be searched, and 2) the method is proper as it parallels parole officer searches and police searches. If you can tell me why consent doctrine applies to all other government agencies but not TSA then you've got something. If you can tell me why parole officer and police officer searches are legal but TSA's searches are not (no probable cause necessary when you consent see 1) then you've got something.

If you are just emotionally upset because you believe the invasive nature of the searches goes beyond what is necessary then I agree, but your cause of action would just get rational basis review. The government only needs to prove it is utilizing the least discriminatory/invasive alternative for a strict scrutiny review. For RBR all it needs to do is show it had a rational reason to think increased security would lower terrorist attacks. Actual improvements don't need to be shown under RBR. RBR is basically a win for government (not always for example Romer v. Evans and Lawrence v. Texas), and SS is always a loss (no chance we see another Korematsu, at least, I hope not).

There, I've stuffed a couple hundred pages of Con Law theory into two paragraphs. Under current law, I just don't see how your civil rights violation charge holds. Maybe you feel TSA violates your civil rights. Maybe you just think that it does. But, the Court doesn't care what you think or feel; your congress person does/should. The Court only cares about what the legislator has said and what it has said. And in that case TSA's parallel government organizations have all been held constitutional so you'll have to prove why TSA is different.

Did you know that by agreeing to the terms and services of ITunes you have consented to being connected butt-to-mouth in a human centipede? So don't go bitching when they come asking to do that.

(Also, the searches police do are pat downs, these are technically body searches reserved for those already suspected of committing a crime so you have to figure out why it is ok for the TSA to use them but NOT the police on those who are not suspected.)

Sorry but ill rather take my chances at getting my junk looked at rather than being blown up at 30,000 feet in the air. If you're self conscious about your body then seek therapy or a gym.

Bingo University of Chicago Student!

this TSA bull$hit is just that. Bull$hit. Do you know that they went into a Greyhound Bus Station no less in GA and patted those people down? This is a test to see just how tolerant we American people are going to be with our lose of one more Liberty.

Yeah?...Really? Show me how the TSA scanners parallel parole and police searches. They don't use these scanners subjecting you to high levels of radiation, and as in the case of police, they are still restricted by probable cause. Where is probable cause being used here? Texas tried to pass a law that said TSA searches must be predicated by probable cause and they got threatened by the justice department for banning flights in and out of Texas. They claim the supremacy cluase, but TSA is not acting on established law, they are conducting these searches based on policy, which can be challenged constitutionally. Also the SCOTUS just ruled last week that the TSA violated their own charter by not allowing for public comment on these particular policy changes. You cannot sign away your 4th amendment rights!

Except I haven't been convicted of a crime, nor am I under arrest when I'm catching a plane, or if the TSA has its way a bus or a train or a subway. And the Court ALSO is supposed to OBJECT if the legislature says something that is blatantly UNCONSTITUTIONAL.

The problem is we have an extremely politically active RIGHTWING cabal on the Court which is overturning decades of settled law either by frontal assaults, or by increasingly narrow hemmed in definitions that make many rights inoperative to all intents and purposes, ESPECIALLY the rights spoken of in the 9th Amendment, which SPECIFICALLY addresses the strict constructionism twaddle by the current rightwing cabal on the court by CLEARLY stating the we citizens shall NOT have a whole host of rights abridged SIMPLY becasue they are NOT enumerated in the Constitution. The language is very clear, much more clear than the 2nd Amendment for example, contrary to that political hack Scalia's dismissal of the 9th Amendment as an unintelligible dead letter.

ubermensch,There are around 8 states trying to pass these laws.The justice departement or what ever the Hell it is in this Totalitarian Government is Black Mailing these States.

These States need to get their acts together and pass these antigroping laws Simultaniously!They do that and this Totalitarian government,would HAVE TO BACK DOWN.

THERE'S BE CHAOS IN THIS COUNTRY.These Dumb States haven't figured that out yet!

Very simple Plan!

snako: there are no need for these procedures. Simply profile. Get a grip. This is a ploy to once again, relieve we people from another Liberty. A test. Just how far can we "push" the people before they stand up and say ENOUGH!

you're not violating anyone's civil rights with a pat down...or else there wouldn't be a cop in the country that isn't in litigation...

The fact of the matter is, the TSA is damned if they do and damned if they don't...people will never be happy unless we're giving them visible assurances that they will be safe aboard a plane, but we probably won't ever be able to do that without some nuts saying that their civil rights are being violated. Last time I checked, air travel was a choice and was not being forced on anyone (and if they are being forced it's because they're incarcerated and are being transported) onto a plane, so the next time you think about how awful it is to get felt up in the airport or the potential for a stranger to see the Xrayed outline of your junk, think about the alternative and the fact that you MADE A CHOICE to fly.

Police have to have a level of probable cause to detain and then in the course of their investigation they can do a search or pat down for their safety or to confirm or deny there is evidence.

The TSA has no probable cause to detain and search and they are not investigating a crime, they are a prevention step, which means their invasive searches have no merit and they have no probable cause but the government keeps allowing them to violate passengers, physically and sexually.

You don't need probable cause when you have consent. Consent is an objective test consisting of the consent being voluntary, knowingly, and intelligently. The choice must also being reasonable. Your iTunes example fails the test. I voluntarily agreed, but you really think agreeing to a piece of computer software is so connected to biomodification that agreeing to the terms a person knowingly and intelligently agreed? No, that relationship is too tenuous; however, if you buy a ticket knowing that you may be searched by pat down that is knowingly and intelligent.

Your argument smacks of Law & Order legal theory.

The Court is not supposed to object when the legislator does something like this. The Court is bound to grant opinions only in cases or controversies. The Court cannot, sua sponte, declare a law unconstitutional. Federal courts are courts of limited jurisdiction that require adverse parties and a case or controversy. Congress cannot even ask the Court to give an opinion nor can Congress create a case that isn't truly adverse. Muskrat.

Texas can't force TSA to abide by probable cause since consent doctrine is based upon the 4th Amendment. Similar to state statutes that prohibit police arrest for crimes that would not result in jail. The Supreme Court held that an officer may arrest whenever a crime has been committed. The Court specifically stated that states cannot abridge the 4th Amendment. Outside of criminal law but still within Con Law, state term limits on Federal Congressional positions are also unconstitutional. States cannot add requirements to the constitution which is what forcing probable cause on TSA and term limits on federal congressional seats. This is the same reason when people were upset with Kagan's nomination because she hadn't been a judge were wrong. A Supreme Court justice need not even be an attorney. The constitution has all the requirements for a justice and no one, not Congress, not individual states, no one can add requirements (save for an amendment).

And you can't profile, because that is a violation of equal protection. And since you would be racially profiling your profile law would face strict scrutiny.

I see your issues with TSA, and I understand them. The jerks at Seattle International screwed me over bigtime when I was in the Air Force. The problem is the law just isn't there. You assume the government setup TSA with no thought to any other admin agencies.

You don't have to like the law, but it is what it is. You'd be better off going after a Congress person since they can get rid of TSA completely. Win in court and you will probably just get a piece.

IT'S NOT LAW, BUT POLICY! And policy that goes against their own federal jurisdiction by not allowing public comment according to SCOTUS.

ubermensch:...When did public opinion counts in the USA?

And Gloria, I prefer security handled by airline carriers. That way some carriers would develop intelligent system if they are given guidelines.

Yeah?: I had to google what Law and Order is. I understand it used to be shown on what is called a television set. Hang on to that thing, it'll be worth big bucks in a few years.

I also don't appreciate people treating the constitution like it can't be changed. If the court or anyone else feels it isn't explicit enough, it will just have to get explicit enough. That's the whole point of this country isn't it? The states can single handedly modify the constitution. The TSA exist at our sufferance, not because a court says they can, and the states considering amongst themselves whether or not they want the TSA around is perfectly acceptable.

Sorry but ill rather take my chances at getting my junk looked at rather than being blown up at 30,000 feet in the air. If you're self conscious about your body then seek therapy or a gym.

You do realize that TSA has not prevented one terrorist threat, don't you??!! So please, enlighten me, on the whys of such extreme measures being used under the guise of protection!

Unfortunately, most Americans don't want to make the effort to stand up for their rights. They'll complain on these sites all day, but never bother contacting our leaders to get things changed. So, the question of how far they can push us before we say enough? Probably 10 times as far as they are already pushing us. Few are standing up to the gas prices. Few are standing up to the TSA. Few are standing up to the government wasting everyone's money by fighting against each other instead of working to fix the deficit and any number of other problems. Few are standing up against both parties to get them to put forward good candidates for offices instead of whoever has the most money or strongest backing. The list goes on. We should have stood up against a lot of things a very long time ago, but only a small number of people do and that just isn't enough to get anything done.

the scanners should not be at the entrance to the concourse, they should be at the entrance to the gates going to the airplane. Too much can be picked up in the concourse. Everyone had read about the luggage loaders stealing suitcases and items from suitcases. What is to prevent one of them "PUTTING" something into a piece of lugga

There is a no fly list. I read a long time ago that there was going to be a "FLY" list. What happened to that? Also threre exists technology a lot less invasive and much more secure. A simple monitor can be set up to read your finger prints, at the same time, the retina at the back of your eyeball can be checked to verify your identity and the technology to read your voice can be used. You just step up to the monitor the first time, show your passport and enter all the information and touch the screen with your hands, and eyeball the viewer and say your name. Then that is on the master computer and you can sail through the next time time as you are on the "FLY" list. Simple eh? And I checked there are explosive sniffers available. Yet it appears that this technology is not being used. Why not?

Consent is not consent if it's extracted under threat. The TSA say you MUST consent to the search or you aren't allowed to fly (a violation of the Constitutionally guaranteed right to travel, not to mention restricting private individuals from accessing private business services without just cause).

As a comparison, imagine if the police decided to stop all cars entering or leaving your neighborhood and perform a full search of the car and pat-down of the driver and all passengers. Their justification being that they announced that anyone trying to drive into or out of that neighborhood implicitly consented to the search. Would you be up in arms? Yes, you would.

The TSA's searches are not justified. The terrorist attacks that caused all these searches were almost all launched from OUTSIDE the United States, with the terrorists boarding flights OUTSIDE the United States, meaning NO TSA SEARCH OF ANYTHING COULD CATCH THEM! International flights fly over major US population centers and near major US installations on a daily basis, and none of them are searched by the TSA. These are the flights terrorists will target, if any.

The TSA hasn't stopped one terrorist. They won't stop one terrorist. They can't stop any but the most idiotic of terrorists (who would be caught by the CIA first).

And you can't profile, because that is a violation of equal protection. And since you would be racially profiling your profile law would face strict scrutiny.

But according to what I hear and read from those who fly frequently profiling happens all the time. How many of those pulled aside for "enhanced search" are in muslim dress? I have talked with many who say they have witnessed people in muslim dress especially women being passed thru security without any kind of search or x-ray. That is reverse profiling in the name of Political correctness at its worst.

Sorry but ill rather take my chances at getting my junk looked at rather than being blown up at 30,000 feet in the air. If you're self conscious about your body then seek therapy or a gym.

You might be right but if this ever gets hacked and you "junk" gets posted on the internet, you might change your opinion.

C. Smith: I've never read in the Constitution where it said you had a right to travel??? Maybe I haven't read it enough...can you enlighten me as to where that is???

You might be right but if this ever gets hacked and you "junk" gets posted on the internet, you might change your opinion.

Maybe that would bother you, I would just say: "Don't act like you're not impressed". Seriously, it would not bother me. Plus, most of this country is disgustingly fat . . . so no one wants to "hack" your images and post them. It's bad enough seeing you with clothes on.

If you are embarrassed by your own body, go to the gym. A scanner that basically provides a night-vision view of your body does not show more than that thin layer of cotton clothing. People will know you are morbidly obese before and after the scanner.

Flying on a plane is a privileged, not a right. You CHOOSE to fly, just like you CHOOSE to go to a nightclub . . . either way, you will get a pat down. Don't like it, don't go.

BTW . . . for all the people saying they will just stay home, THANK YOU. Less lines for me.

"Oh mommy, they wanna scan me." Big deal. I actually prefer security when I fly. ;-)

All this talk about pat downs make me sick. What are you going to say about your rights when some ass**** blows up the plane your family is on?

LOL - Thoughts From Cali - I like your style. Enough said.

dirt52, they will be the first in line to sue the TSA for not doing their job. Boy I am glad, or put it this way I am glad you did not live in this country during WW2, it would have driven all you civil rights nuts, NUTS.

Didi...

"The enumeration in the Constitution of certain rights shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people." -9th Amendment to the United States Constitution

See how the constitution doesn't have to give you certain rights. We as people are suppose to stand up for our rights that we feel we retain.

NOT Good Enough!Take those Dam Scanners and your Dam Pat Downs and GET RID OF THEM!

I kinda like the pat down. The downside is that airports are doing away with smoking areas. I always crave a smoke after a good pat down.

Do they kiss you first?

First of all. People now and days they think they have the right to do anything, these are the same people that think they have the right to sue anyone for anything. I love this counrty but people went from a "walk 10 miles in the snow people" to a people that looks for every reason to whine that their civil rights are being violated. You think the constitution would be written the same if it were written today? back then there wasent woman stuffing explosives in their bras and men putting bombs in their shoes with detonators in their underwear. Yeah lets take down the scanners and take out pat downs. take out tsa all together and let people fly at their own risk. Then watch as terrorist take down plane after plane. then we can thank people like Gloria Fabiaschi, someone who probably doesnt fly often but reads what the media is putting out and feels the need to start a civil rights rally. give me a break I fly at least twice a month, I fly with a peace of mind and never once even after a pat down, doubted my freedom or felt my civil rights were being violated. Come on, those who wrote the constitution would be rolling in their graves after seeing how sensitive and whiny we become as a people.

Now that cockpits are secured, as they should have been from day one, it is virtually impossible to hijack a plane in this country. Yes, someone could still blow one up, but raining debris down on the lawn of the White House, the Pentagon,or any other target will not have the same effect as flying a plane into a public building. Further, it's pretty much a waste of a perfectly good bomb and a terrorist with a death wish when they could be expended in arenas that would cause far more death and destruction. The final game of the World Series comes to mind, as well as rush hour on the Golden Gate bridge, or a thousand other places.

None of this so-called security is going to stop a terrorist from buying a private plane and flying IT into a building, either. I can think of a hundred ways to get past airport security, including chartering a small private plane that does not have the ability to lock the cockpit and flying IT into a building.

This screening is a farce. You know it, I know it, and the TSA knows it. It is, however, a huge moneymaker and that, I believe, is the bottom line. Just another pork project, and very large and profitable one.

Thoughts from California keep your thoughts there.Tell me what pet shop did the TSA snag you out of?

You're a another dumb parrot just like the rest of the gullible people on this board!Flying is not a right it is a privilege.News flash smart guy,NO IT'S NOT.Where did you pick that stupid saying up from the Whacky head of homeland Security? She invented it by the way. That's her dumb ass original saying.She comes out with this Bull Crap and all these gullible people eat into this Made up Garbage as if it were Candy!

Here's another newsflash for all you Gullible People on here and that includes you, Not much thought from California.

Flying People is under the Auspices of Traveling.Noe Pay Attention.People in this FREE,notice I said FREE Country, have a right to travel, whether it's flying walking bicycling driving a car riding horse and all the other ways of getting around this FREE Country, under the Auspices of traveling.They have a right to travel without being Degraded Denigrated, Humilated, Molested and made to feel liked a common criminal, when no dam crime was commited.Then there's the clincher. No probable Cause,you people all know what that is don't you?Probably not from some of the Dumb Gullible posts I'm reading on here.

Bottom line People, unless a crime has been committed the TSA,or any other organization has No Right doing what they're doing at our Airports.IT'S ALL A SHAM.

Smarten the Hell Up!They the TSA has got you by the Short Hairs,Gullible!

Didi-376564 - the following website sums it up the best; however, there is additional case law that firmly esblishes travel (yes, that includes flying) is a RIGHT. Many people commonly make the mistake of comparing air travel with driving - stating it is a privilage . . . you have to have to driver's licenses, etc, etc. . . . not correct. That too is a right.

The Right To Travel

As the Supreme Court notes in Saenz v Roe, 98-97 (1999), the Constitution does not contain the word "travel" in any context, let alone an explicit right to travel (except for members of Congress, who are guaranteed the right to travel to and from Congress). The presumed right to travel, however, is firmly established in U.S. law and precedent. In U.S. v Guest, 383 U.S. 745 (1966), the Court noted, "It is a right that has been firmly established and repeatedly recognized." In fact, in Shapiro v Thompson, 394 U.S. 618 (1969), Justice Stewart noted in a concurring opinion that "it is a right broadly assertable against private interference as well as governmental action. Like the right of association, ... it is a virtually unconditional personal right, guaranteed by the Constitution to us all." It is interesting to note that theArticles of Confederation had an explicit right to travel; it is now thought that the right is so fundamental that the Framers may have thought it unnecessary to include it in the Constitution or the Bill of Rights.

and to expand on the case law cited above -

"It is a right broadly assertable against private interference as well as governmental action. Like the right of association, ... it is a virtually unconditional personal right, guaranteed by the Constitution to us all." -- Shapiro v Thompson, 394 U.S. 618 (1969)

further -

"The right to travel is a well-established common right that does not owe its existence to the federal government. It is recognized by the courts as a natural right." Schactman v. Dulles 96 App DC 287, 225 F2d 938, at 941.

and

"The constitutional right to travel from one State to another, and necessarily to use the highways and other instrumentalities of interstate commerce in doing so, occupies a position fundamental to the concept of our Federal Union. It is a right that has been firmly established and repeatedly recognized.... Although there have been recurring differences in emphasis within the Court as to the source of the constitutional right of interstate travel, there is no need here to canvass those differences further. All have agreed that the right exists. " --U.S. v Guest, 383 U.S. 745 (1966)

Funny everyone wants to be safe but no one wants to put up with being searched or scanned. Saftey doesn't just happen. I mean putting your baby in a car seat is a pain in the ass but it's the right thing to do and keeps your baby safe so we do it. Just because you have nothing better in your life to worrie about then people trying to do their job and keep you safe doesn't mean your opinion is the smartest one no matter how many people you call names or how loud you yell.

The guards were doing their jobs in the Concentration camps during World War 2 also.That kind of job they shouldn't be doing.Oh and one other thing it doesn't keep you safe either.Smarten Up!

Taking a low-waged ill-trained government employee that enjoys touching same-sex strangers all day doesn't make them a security officer. Any reasonable person need only pass through an airport checkpoint to understand that the TSA is a joke. Most of the TSA employees would be much more comfortable sitting at home waiting for their next entitlement check to hit the mailbox. The US government is simply employing a group of people that would otherwise be unproductive and unemployed.

gloria, sorry to burst your bubble but flying is a privilege not a right. it's just like driving. you don't turn 16 and all the sudden you can drive, you have to take a driving TEST first to make sure you do not pose a threat to other drivers. once you pass that you are deemed safe to drive and given your drivers license which gives you the PRIVILEGE to drive; it's a privilege because it can be taken away... well, you have to pass an airport screening that involves either pat-downs or body scanners too. thats your TEST at the airport. once you pass that test, you are deemed safe to other flyers and are allowed to fly. you don't have the right to fly! and if you don't like it drive or take a boat... it's like a restaurant also, they don't have to serve you if you don't follow their rules... we are not gullible like you say. in fact i think it is people like you that have been tricked into thinking that flying is this magical right hahaha.

also, i think they should have 2 separate airports everywhere. one airport is for people like me who enjoy safety and don't bitch and complain about everything and just wanna go through the screenings and make sure everyone else isn't hiding a concealed weapon (like a plastic knife or something that metal detectors don't pick up) and get on our plane to head to our destination. and the other airport is for those who think they don't need security and wish to fly without any... i feel bad for the pilot of those planes, but i think that will weed out all the idiots in life, one terrorist attack at a time! and don't anyone get me started on the "radiation from these machines being hazardous to your health" because you get more radiation from flying on the actual plane up in the atmosphere than going through those machines hahaha... you also get more from the sun and a whole bunch of stuff. almost everything in your daily life is radioactive, so to the radiation freaks out there, just stay in a hole in the ground with a cover over you and hide from the world so no radiation gets to you... oh wait i forgot to mention, there's radon in the soil too haha oh well

First flight is not a RIGHT, just as driving is not a RIGHT..they are both Privileges.

This is an indisputable fact. Why is this important?

FTA is a FEDERAL agency. If flight is a privilege then it falls under the STATES to regulate.

Just more overall BS these people are allowed to get away with because the American Public has been neutered and so focused on threats to SSI that they don't care about being fleeced.

Panda..you are uneducated. If you are worried about terrorist the first thing that will happen is the unprotected airplane will crash into your protected airport.

Too many idiots not enough paintballs.

oh so all the sudden i'm uneducated because you disagree? hahaha

the pilots will still have locked cockpits obviously. isn't that everyone's argument against security: saying that the cockpits are locked and that's enough security? well in that case the only thing they could do is blow up the plane because they can't get into the cockpit, or stab some people on board with plastic knives or something, but hey it wouldn't be me. so they actually wouldn't fly into the protected building.

and since planes fly state to state, they are federally controlled, i figured that would be pretty obvious. having multiple agencies in each state that have to pass off each plane to the next state's control when they cross the border would cause too many problems.

also to the people saying that travel is a RIGHT, yes it is, you have the right to walk around and travel and move from place to place, ta duh!!! but since the planes are operated by companies that choose to follow federal law, then you have to follow it also... it's just like the drinking age being 21. that's not an actual federal law, but the feds will cut off highway funds and everything if the states don't comply, so they do and they pass laws saying that the drinking age is 21.

flying isnt anything like driving, yes you have to be licensed to drive a car, but you dont have to do anything to be a passanger.. i dont want to drive the plane i just want to be a passanger.

so the 2 are totally differant in my book.

yes, you're right. but they actually are very similar... when you're the passenger in the car, the driver is responsible for everyone in the car and you have to abide by their rules. if the driver says you can't ride with them because you might have a weapon and you don't agree to go through their tests, then who's to stop them from doing that. after all, it's their car. it's like picking up a hitch-hiker you have never met, you wouldn't do that if you didn't feel safe. well the pilots on the plane have never met you, and they want to be safe just as well as the other passengers... the planes are owned by companies that follow the federal law, so if they say you have to go through their tests to be cleared to fly, then you have to go through their tests to fly. after all, it's their planes. they are the "drivers" of their planes and you are the passenger... see, they are very similar.

Don't want to be searched...then don't fly....simple as that.

For those who think that the goal of a terrorist is to fly a plane into a building and that they would view blowing up a plane is a waste of time you need to think on that. What is the goal of terrorism??? Terror... So what creates more terror... A bomb at a once a year event or blowing up a ranndom comercial jet? Something millions of people all over the world fly in.

Just some food for thought.

Also Yeah? is dead on when they say by purchasing an airline ticket and getting in the security line you are by default consenting to a search. You have a choice. Body scanner or pat down, but it's still a choice. Your other choice is to not fly. And if you are going to bring up the police remember they have traffic saftey stops all the time when they are randomly checking people to see if you are breaking the law by driving under the influence or on a suspended license or if you have warrants. Additionally how many times have you seen on cops or been asked when you were pulled over if it was okay to search your car? I have once.

Look do I think the TSA is wasting time more than helping? Yeah, but just being there acts as a deterent, and they did on a search find the poor army guy who have a small souvineer of some plastic explosives from demolition school in his bag. So they caught someone. Whatever that is worth.

Bottom line though is you know what will happen when you buy a ticket and you do it anyway. So either stop flying or shut up already.

Anything we pick is not a right driven medium where court tested rules are known in terms of opting to smoke where it is illegal, driving without a license, or insurance, or while intoxicated, setting off alarms in a public courthouse and refusing to be searched, building a shed on a neighbors lawn. And we are not free to select flying knowing the process and then demand everyone fly in danger because you like it better the way it was before we knew people want to blow up planes or drive them into buildings. Airlines have as much right as a courthouse to protect the public and their property. The government has a requirment to protect the public where they know danger exists such as when they impose lawful rules on the food and drug industry for public safety, etc.

They can't sell contaminated consumer products and we can't demand that they drop the industry standards because it is inconvenient to one group who likes contamination. So the real question is can science make this process of protection a little less intrusive. I am sure it is going to take time but for now, don't expect airlines to say that convenience is worth more than hundreds of lives on a plane. The airline industry and government are not going to go back period. They would be crazy to lower security due to someone's unreasonable phobia on being searched or scanned. This is not a game or fun internet debate for them.

If you are embarrassed by your own body, go to the gym. A scanner that basically provides a night-vision view of your body does not show more than that thin layer of cotton clothing. People will know you are morbidly obese before and after the scanner.

I am not ashamed of my body. I unlike you though do not have an exhibitionist mentality. Also if this could be done for us including the exhibitionist in you, it could be done with kids. I believe even you would probably oppose that.

This is for panda and all; the other PARROTS!Flying is not a right it's a privilege Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah!How Dumb can you people be?I mean Really How Gullible and Dumb?

That Stupid saying for all you Gullible Parrots,was instituted by The Dim Witted Idiot Head of the HOMELAND SECURITY.IT'S A PROPAGANDA SAYING.I heard it myself from this Clowns mouth. IT HAS NO VALIDITY TO IT!NON NUNCA NADA !Absolutely means NOTHING!

One more time kiddies Flying comes under the Auspices study that word now,TRAVELING.Whether it be by plane, train, automobile, walking, dancing, riding a jackass, a horse, riding a bike, whatever!

You people have a RIGHT AND I CAN'T SPELL IT ANY LARGER,to travel through out this country without being SEARCHED MOLESTED SCANNED, HUMILIATED,DEGRADED, DENIGRATED ABUSED,TREATED LIKE A COMMON CRIMINAL WHEN NO CRIME WAS COMMITTED, and all the other words that come with ABUSE OF HUMAN RIGHTS.Then name of the Game Parrots is to be able to move about FREELY about this country!Which end of this do you people not understand?

The Homeland Security and theTSA people are the real TERRORISTS and HUMAN RIGHTS ABUSERS!They have you people so dam screwed up, paranoid, and know how GULLIBLE YOU ALL REALLY ARE.You peopla are unbelievable you play right into their hands Really!They have right where they want you on their GULLIBLE LIST!

Let them have it Gloria!!

I CAN'T SPELL IT ANY LARGER

Well, thank God for that. Seriously, excessive use of caps isn't helping you make a point. Not that I disagree, I just think your being a little to critical of people who are apathetic towards this. I haven't been molested yet so I really don't have any anger towards them. Millions of people go through their checkpoints, it's no surprise a few mistakes are going to be made, but the majority of people are fine with their methods. Effective? No way, I feel no safer with their presence. In my opinion, they really only needed to add a small increase in security after the bombings, not all this high tech equipment that just wastes money and time.

ok gloria, then show me WHERE in the constitution it says you have the RIGHT to be on anyone else's private property? those jets are owned by private companies and those companies follow federal law in return for govt screenings of passengers before boarding by a govt agency to make sure that their property is protected and the lives of their passengers do not come under any harm. it's their choice... if you don't like it then buy your own plane, take a car, take a boat, etc... they don't HAVE to let you on their planes if they don't want to. also, none of these companies want it to be THEIR plane that is attacked, so they hire the best security they can afford. you might think these measures have not caught anyone yet, but maybe it's deterred someone, maybe it's caused someone to not even try. i'm just being hypothetical now, but it is a very distinct possibility... we're not dumb or gullible, we just UNDERSTAND things that even the simplest of minds should be able to comprehend, but apparently they don't... hey look at all the caps!!!! personally i am more concerned about something actually happening on the metro, subway, or a stadium where there are large gatherings of people, but i'm glad that our airports have stepped up their security measures... also, according to the investigation from 9/11, some of the terrorists had purchased utility knives that were never recovered in their belongings, which means most likely they found a way to slip them past the security that you hold oh so divine and used them to take over the planes. had scanners been involved, something might have been avoided... i wonder what the people who died in those planes would have to say today about the security we have enforced now. bet they would be very happy with how far we've come! but i guess security doesn't mean anything to you until the day when something does happen to you at an airport or aboard a plane. if you don't want to be groped, go through the scanner. if you don't want to go through the scanner, then take an alternative means of transport... it's not hard haha.

those jets are owned by private companies and those companies

With all due respect pandas. Nice name btw. I don't believe the screening was a decision of the private companies. And I think Gloria's frustration is aimed at Homeland Security. And as far as the passengers, it seems the opinions are split.

hahaha thanks! people were getting me confused with someone else who was spewing large amounts of hatred on another thread and they started calling me bad names, so i asked to have my name changed because they were too similar and this was the first thing that came to mind because i had just gone with my little cousins to the zoo hahaha huge run-on sentence there sorry

i agree that homeland security is frustrating and sometimes intrusive, but i think these measures are very good deterrents for would-be attackers. they might not have caught anyone, but if they have turned away one attack then i think it's worth it, and i believe that they probably have turned away an attack here and there, will never know for sure though... i have been taken aside once for additional searching because some stupid company decided to make my pant's button out of a metal that goes off in the metal detector. i did it without any fuss and then i was on my way. they weren't intrusive at all! i don't know what the heck you have to do to make them intrusive, or maybe the intrusive agents just aren't trained well... this was before those scanners, so actually i probably wouldn't have even been pulled aside if i had been able to go through a scanner and they had seen that it was just a stupid pant's button.

Nope you're Gullible, plain and simple.

By the way in you're first sentence, what the hell does being on somebody else's property have to do with the constitution?We're talking about TRAVELING HERE!OOPS there's those big bold letters again, don't wanna blind ya!You were babbling something about airlines and their private property and blah blah blah!The airlines didn't put those rediculous safety measures in there.The government forced them down their throats.They had no choice.Boy are you naive!

We're talking about traveling!You're 4th amendment rights They're being Violated!How Gullible can you Be?You go along with everything you're told!Unbelievable!All these socalled safety measures at the airports have nothing to do with your safety, it's all bogus theater.Those scanners are money makers.Look up Michael Chertof and rapscan.That oughta give you an eye full.They're laughing all the way to the bank at the expense of your constitutional rights.Like I said you and others like you are unbelievable.

What next, you going to drop your pants in the middle of the street if they tell you it's for your safety?Wake the Hell Up.You've been Had,hook line and sinker!Again unbelievable.

i guess you don't understand the concept that private companies own those jets you fly on so when you are flying on an airplane you are in fact on private property and they have every right to turn you down for whatever reason. they could say you can't fly because you don't fit in the 5'-6' range. now that's not good for business, but they can do that. you seem to be confusing the right to travel with the right to travel on/in someone else's property, which doesn't exist. i'm one of the biggest "F THE GOVT AND THEIR CONTROL!" people out there, but i understand when they are trading a little bit of "personal space" for security. i'm not gullible like you keep putting it and i'm afraid that's the only way you know how to talk, calling people names. i can tell from all your past posts. if someone doesn't agree with you then you have a name for them. kind of pathetic if you ask me... and you're right, we should do away with the TSA as you have put it. that way we can just waltz on in onto our with no security whatsoever, because if you haven't noticed, they are in charge of even the basic security at our airports. i am thankful that they are there and i don't really care what anyone else thinks about them... also, it's called the changing of the times. everyone fights it, but someday it will finally sink in that it's needed... bet you didn't hear the one about the russian plane bombing back in 2004 by a chechen woman that they investigated and found that she had carried explosives on board in her bra? they had most of the security measures that the US had enforced except two things: they didn't have scanners and they didn't have patdowns for people refusing to go through the scanners at that airport. 90 people wish they had gone through US security measures because now they are dead. these things might not have "caught" anyone yet that we know of, but they are a very good deterrent... and when you say that the govt put those ridiculous safety measures there, well the govt has put ridiculous safety measures/laws/regulations everywhere in life but i don't see people complaining about those. you can't like everything they do... i know you're just going to keep disagreeing with me, so i agree to disagree and just put this matter behind us.

You're right I'm going to keep disagreeing cause I know when somethings radically wrong when I see it.

However you're decent enough to agree to disagree so I say YEAH, let's leave at that!

HEY HEY HEY! No civility allowed on the newsvine! Go back to arguing immediately!

Pandas, it appears that all you must do to make them "intrusive" is have a disability. Out of all the disability groups to which I belong that have members who must fly, not a single one has been exempted from "enhanced screening".

Perhaps all of us with disabilities should dress as though we are Muslim prior to going through screening to avoid being treated as though having a disability is a crime, since from all reports being dressed in traditional Muslim attire is enough to exempt one from TSA fondling.

The TSA is a cancer on the American Constitution and Bill of Rights.

It has done no good what so ever other then proving the terrorists have won.

It should be abolished immediately to permit the TSA employees to return to their jobs of bagging groceries and to stop their useless groping/sexual assault of the American flying public.

Most people opt out because of the cancer risk in the backscatter machines. Small but real.

I like to think that they did enough research into these "carcinogenic" machines to know that they would be safe to implement, considering the millions of passengers that would have to go through them. If any credible study found a correlation between them and cancer risks, that could potentially end the TSA.

you get almost a thousand times more radiation just from getting on the plane and flying up high in the atmosphere and you get much more than that from just being out in the sun hahaha. the fear of cancer from these machines is completely irrational. just walk through the damn scanner already and don't hold up the lines any longer. people already have to get there almost 3 hours early in some places, so it's annoying when someone makes an irrational fuss based off of the fact that they don't have the knowledge of how something works... or better yet, they think they know how it works and they complain about it being bad haha.

The skin of the aircraft should, at least in theory, deflect some of the radiation which is unavoidable in flying. As for studies regarding the risks of the scanners....insofar as I can determine, there ARE no studies. I have found a number of media articles who cite unnamed "scientists", and a couple done by the same Army that said that Agent Orange was harmless.

Even if there were double blind studies done by reputable scientists.....and of course there never will be, because that would entail deliberately exposing people to radiation many times and then seeing if they develop cancers years down the road that can definitively be attributed to the scanners and only to the scanners, which is impossible to begin with, and there have been enough live subject tests done by our government over the years that have come to light that I seriously doubt that they (or anyone in the scientific community) will ever try that particular model again....it takes many years of testing and evaluation for something like this to be a valid study.

The ADA only requires companies to take reasonable steps. Forcing a company to develop technology not yet invented is not reasonable. It's a good idea, and the company is probably working on it, but the ADA cannot be used to force companies to develop specific technology or products.

Forcing a company to make it's technology wheelchair accessible, when that technology is being used by the US government in an essentially mandatory fashion, is quite reasonable.

Correct C Smith. I think I smell a lawsuit.

No, currently the TSA's OWN NUMBERS suggest that SEVENTY PERCENT of security checkers who attempt to smuggle contraband past TSA check points SUCCEED.

And don't forget that nice Nigerian stowaway, who for YEARS got by TSA check points with OUT OF DATE boarding passes that DIDN'T EVEN MATCH HIS ID. HE was finally caught twice, by AIRLINE BOARDING GATE PERSONELL.

The TSA is a sick sad and way WAY overpriced joke.

Both methods use software. This one just places what is found on a paper doll image instead of the real image. It might be somewhat less accurate, but is probably close to the original. And considering how badly the current methods work, being off only a very small amount isn't going to matter.

The original only uses imaging technology, and then shows those images to the viewer. The new one must also use pattern-recognition software to identify normal and abnormal parts of those images and only display the abnormal parts. This is still a very iffy aspect of software.

Very Nice!Here's another Terrorist's Sexual Assault!

TSA = Total Sexual Assault

Terrorists Searching Americans = TSA

Totally Stupid A**holes = TSA

Touching Something Always = TSA

Thousands Standing Around.

Tit s Ass

Gloria,

It's nice to see you're taking a proactive approach to changing that which outrages you (Sarcasm, if your detector is broken).

Tell me are you for real, or did somebody just drop you on your head?

We don't have the same security standards for say, busses or trains that carry a similar amount of people.

Not yet but it is in the plans. We are becoming more and more like Nazi Germany or Soviet Russia. It swill not be long before we have to inform the authorities to leave our homes for anything other than going to our job or to the store for needed food, clothing, etc.

Not yet. They want to add this same "security" for buses and trains. It isn't even overkill because it doesn't actually work. It's a waste of time to make people FEEL safe instead of actually making them safe and many people have fallen for the hype. Considering the number of people falling for infomercials and other ridiculous offers, that's not much of a surprise. If we want to make people safe, we need to profile and we need to use drug and bomb sniffing dogs.

We are making safety decisions based on people's feelings and beliefs and that's not appropriate. It shouldn't matter if someone is offended because they are profiled. It shouldn't matter if someone is offended by dogs because of their religious beliefs (the Muslim issue with the use of dogs). And if we DO choose this method of manhandling passengers, it should apply to everyone regardless of religion... no letting Muslims wear clothing that prevents checking for weapons. Guess what, MORE people are offended by the current system. And if you want to say that religious beliefs are enough reason to change the system, then let me just say that as a Christian, I do not believe it is right for some unknown person to fondle me or my family. There. It's now a religious issue for me. Are you going to change the system so you aren't offending my religious beliefs like you did for the Muslims, or does that only apply to other religions? If they will only take into account the feelings of other religions, then they are treating people differently based on religion already (profiling) and instead of doing it against the ones most likely to bring a weapon or bomb on a plane, they are doing it to the ones least likely while reducing it for those most likely.

I meant we don't have the same security standards for, say, busses or trains because its totally absurd. I suppose I did not make my comment clear enough and should have elaborated. Instead I opted for brevity.

You know what all this TSA nonsense reminds me of? WWII and the Japanese-American Internment Camps (where our oh-so-brilliant government thought it would be 'good for national security' to haul every last single Japanese-American out of their homes along the west coast and dump them in camps).

It's the same hysteria that accomplished nothing more than enriching the parasites who have figured out how to make a buck off that hysteria. It does nothing for American safety.

If you continue reading, they are running the test of those on the backscatter ones in the fall.

And the TSA needs to view these porno scans in their private masturbatorium why? Because they would violate pornography laws by having the porno scans visible to the public.

Ah yeah it does sir! You're being harassed, humiliated, degraded, denigrated,molested and a whole host of other illegal bull sh it before boarding a plane and traveling in between states.Flying mister comes under the Auspices of Traveling freely between states.

Get your priorities straight, because they're Ass Backwards!

Gloria, why don't you start up an airline that does not require any type of security on it and see just how many people would fly on it. You need to get a grip on real life. For all those complaing, once she starts her airlines go fly on it. In the mean time I prefer some type on deterant. I have no desire to be blown up at 30,000 ft because Gloria and friends think they are special. The people crying about their rights being violated are the same ones that will complain the loudest once their love one are blown up.

Get a life.

@Ret_MSgt: Maybe you should think more about what you're saying before basically copy/pasting what the supporters keep trying to feed everyone? First of all, I think everyone here who doesn't support the TSA is saying to go back to what we had before and add in profiling and possibly also bomb/drug dogs. That is FAR from no security. I don't think anyone is suggesting airlines have zero security. So using that in your argument isn't the least bit valid. Instead, how about making it valid? Give people 2 airlines. The first uses TSA and the other uses the previous security methods + profiling + perhaps also bomb/drug dogs. Guess which airline most people will choose. It won't be the TSA airline.

Second, you have a MUCH greater chance of dying in a car crash. Wouldn't it make more sense if you're that concerned about the "What if?" scenarios, that you'd put all that money into making automobiles safer instead of planes? You'd save more lives.

Good Post, that say's it all Riamus!

Oh and to the ex army guy above MSgt.whatever,Dam Straight my friends and I think we're SPECIAL.We are Citizens of the United States and we don't like OUR CIVIL RIGHTS BEING VIOLATED.THAT'S NOW HOW WE LIVE IN THIS COUNTRY MISTER.YOU GOT THAT?

One more thing Genius! You get a life and while your at it READ THE CONSTITUTION THAT YOU SWORE TO UPHOLD.I think you're missing something!

@Riamus Profiling does not work. You now women and children and even the elderly being sucide bombers. What about the people allergic to dogs or claiming to be allergic how do you handle them? I have no doubt given your example more people will choose the TSA airline.

I have heard all these complains about loosing our rights and freedoms but how many of those complaining here have actually gone and defend those rights. All of the whining and crying about being check and loosing right but not able to go defend them. Yeah right. You have a choice on whether to fly or not. Go through security or not. If you don't want to fine. But don't jeopardized my life and the lives of other because you think you are loosing your rights.

The solution is simple if you don't want to go through security don't fly period. For the rest of us who sees no harm in this we will continue to fly.

Riamus,

Well put. And why don't we, as a capitalist nation, let the market dictate how much security is needed? <seriously>

Oh wait our nation did...or rather our elected reps did it for us (or to us). I mean they are much smarter than us aren't they? After all everyone knows the folks in DC are much more in touch with what Americans need than Americans themselves are right? Why else would they balance the budget by cutting medicare to the poor and social security to the elderly while not touching their own Cadillac health care plans and pensions? <sarcasm intended>

So why is it that our elected reps are paid ~4x to 10x our median salary? It must be because they're so much more talented than we are. You know, the kind of talent that pits a middle aged, overweight, unarmed TSO w/a GED against a young, fit, militarily trained, well armed terrorist to fight this war with our dollars while granting themselves immunity from the peek and grope techniques. <sorry folks but I tried to avoid the sarcasm but can't seem to escape it these days, hee haw>

I got 6" nails onto a plane when I was 9, and the TSA didn't exist. They looked at me and asked why I had them, I said they were a souvenir and they let me through. At the same time, I had a teacher who also got sharp scissors through when the TSA existed.

Gloria, enough with the ALL CAPS yelling about civil rights and the Constitution. It only conjurs an image of you standing in the street with a megaphone, blowing everyone's ears off while they cringe or laugh to themselves. It's not getting your point across more effectively than rational behavior would.

@gloria fabiaschi you are surely a very funny person. You are NOT special. Because if you were you would be able to do like all the other special person and fly on a private jet. I have read the Constitution and you right I did swear to uphold it. Did you? I doubt it. Looking the the comments made here, this nothing but a bunch a whiny crybabies that want what they want and when they want it and to hell with everyone else.

Well dear, guess what you will not get what you want, so deal with it. Get a life that means something. Go work in an emergency room and work with dismember bodies. Join the military and go watch your friends get blown up. Go experience death and distruction first hand, then come back here with I don't want to be search attitude and then I will listen. Until then, shut up and don't fly.

MSGT: As a retired Army officer, I have to agree wholeheartedly with your comment....if you don't want to be searched, take a train, drive, or take a cruise ship!! Personally, I don't mind a little inconvenience if it makes me feel even a LITTLE safer! Apparently, those of us with military backgrounds find it easier to take orders without complaining!!

AKap you and Sgt. Bilko there are a couple of FANATICS! I'm dealing with alright Sgt.Bilko and by the time I'm done, me and millions of other people are going to make sure we Win Back this Country from Totalotarian Fanatics like you!.

You Army guy are not upholding the constitution when it comes to Serious Matters such as this one.I on the other hand is upholding it.By speaking out against the violation of Human rights.Look them up!You need a refresher course,because mister your priorities are Screwed UP.

You've and ACrap, I mean Akap have been drinking too much Fear Mongering Juice.So much so that you need to go into Rehab.

We don't need the High Drama about War and Bodies and all the Trappings that come with it.War is War and people Die.That's nature of the BEAST!My husband has been there and done that.He's even had to dig up Bodies, any questions?

Telling me to shut up isn't going to get you anywhere.The more you two Blab, the more I'm just going to go after you and Blab right back!

@Ret_MSgt: Profiling doesn't work? Why then does Israel, for example, have such good security in their airports? A *lot* of people would love to take down Israeli planes. Yet they aren't able to. Profiling in Israel has worked extremely well. And they aren't profiling just based on nationality or age. There are MANY facets that good profiling uses. People who want to fight against ignore that and look at one or two pieces (usually age or race) and ignore the rest. Just like you did.

Being allergic to dogs? Are you serious? The dogs are not snuggling up to the passengers. Considering how many people have pets and walk around the airport with pet dander on their clothing, having dogs there would not in the least increase any allergic reactions. And a very small number of people are allergic enough to be affected by much more than sneezing or congestion. Neither of which are dangerous. If someone is affected more than that by pet dander, then they should wear a mask when in a public place like an airport because there will be a lot of pet dander floating around those places. The reason for not having dogs has nothing to do with allergies. They aren't being allowed because Muslims have some religious belief that makes dogs offensive to them and we're catering to them instead of to us. If we offend them, it's wrong. If we offend us, it's okay. That's how political correctness works.

I have said it in another post. Yes, people complain about all kinds of things where their complaints are valid, but they don't make the effort to stand up against them to the people in charge. This is a fault of the majority of Americans. If the original colonists acted like we do today, we would never have broken free of England.

And as I also said in another post, there are many things that are much more dangerous. If you are concerned about safety, why do you care more about it on a plane than you do in a car, where it's much more likely that you'll be hurt or killed? Why aren't you up in arms about improving automobile safety instead? And there is no real safety improvement from the TSA anyhow. When they test the system and have some "official" walk through with a weapon, the TSA doesn't catch them over and over again. It's not any safer than it was to begin with. It just "sounds" safer. It makes some people FEEL safe even though it doesn't provide any real improvement to safety.

And the "don't fly" jargon that supporters continue to repeat over and over is not valid. Why keep repeating something that is so ridiculous? First, many people have jobs that require flying. Quitting your job when the economy is like it is today is definitely not an option. Many people need to fly to places that cannot be reached by car (such as across the ocean). Many people need to get somewhere quickly and a car won't get them there that quickly. Besides all the reasons why people need to fly, that same "don't fly" can be turned right back at you. What makes "if you don't like the TSA, don't fly" any more valid than "if you don't like the lack of TSA, then don't fly"? Both are equally "valid". In reality, neither are valid and should never be used, but if you're going to use one, then there's no reason the other can't be used against you. Neither is more valid than the other.

Gloria, I'm not "blabbing." The conversation is pretty one-sided in that regard. I'm having an adult discussion. And I'm certainly not a "fanatic." You're the one completely and utterly exhibiting fanatical behavior by kicking and screaming about a portion of life that is practically inconsequential. I'm not being influenced by a single thing- drugs, alcohol, or propaganda. Rehab therefore wouldn't make sense. Just because you disagree doesn't make me a lunatic.

Your sole goal seems to be invoking mass hysteria, then sitting on your ass and calling people names. You say you want things to change, but continue commenting on here all day. That ain't gonna do it. I'm a very happy, fulfilled person that doesn't need things to change. I'm sorry you aren't.

Riamus, I agree with many of the points you make. One thing I disagree with is the validity (or invalidity as you say) of the "Don't like it, don't fly" argument. While I don't have any statistical evidence to back this up, I'm willing to wager that the people who must fly are not the ones who are complaining about being scanned or patted down. It's the stir-crazy soccer moms on vacation who need something to complain about so they feel validated. I just can't picture a professional person (or someone who truly requires airline flight) being outraged by the TSA.

It doesn't do much to improve security, and it costs a lot- agreed. Get rid of it for those reasons. Don't get rid of it because people can't relinquish their personal space for 20 seconds.

Then for god sakes Akap I'm not the one invoking mass hysteria here the Government is.Can't you see this?You are being made a sucker.I'm not saying that to offend you.I'm saying it to warn you.

Things have got to change and for the better.The set up in this Country, for your safety, is like a Cancer it's going to spread,and if it isn't Stopped you sir are not going to have the country you were born in.One of these mornings you're going to wake up and wonder what country you're in.I honestly and truly mean it.

The TSA is doing Nothing but sucking money out of this country,and that's moneyu we don't really have, and is nothing more than a Dog and Pony Show.It has nothing to do with your safety.There are much better ways than this,for Safety.Believe Me Sir!

Gloria, I agree with that last paragraph. That's the first time I've seen you make a complaint other than your personal space being violated. Dismantle the TSA because of its ineptitude, not because of the emotional insecurity of the passengers.

AKap,

I fly 3 days out of 7 every week for work I am outraged at the TSA when they start searching everyone then I'll be content.

Dark Guardian, that's fair enough. But you aren't outraged enough to quit the job which requires you to fly. You're obviously upset by the TSA, but it's something you can live with. So many people here are acting like they'd rather die than be touched or seen by a stranger. Emerge from your paranoia bubbles, people.

Gloria,

Although you have valid points, as Didi points out you are arguing w/folks trained to do as they're told so their opinions RE individual freedom don't reflect the bulk of the civilian population.

To the ex-military types, first off thank you for your service. Secondly, now that you are a retired veteran you are legally bound by the Constitution, not the UCMJ so let's stick to the issue and most reasonable folks won't consider buying an airline ticket a threatening act justifying suspension of the Constitution (unless it's paid for w/cash, there's no luggage, it's a one way ticket, and the buyer has a history of travel to nations who harbor terrorists). Now there I go profiling again. Did someone say profiling didn't work? Did someone say profiling would target minorities? Did my profiling mention anything to identify the terrorist as a minority?

To the ex-military types here's DHS strategy. The enemy is young, fit, angry people (mostly men), trained in military tactics for years. They are well armed, well financed, and willing to die for their cause. They do not have your skills but have the best they can get. Now on our side we have overweight, middle aged, TSOs w/a GED, a couple of weeks of training (mostly in political correctness), and armed with a pen (maybe they have them but I've never seen anything like a stun gun or even handcuffs). Our TSOs punch a clock, follow a procedure, and collect a minimal wage check. Would you go into battle against this enemy with these TSOs covering your back?

This isn't about security. This is about fleecing Americans. Google Michael Chertoff and Rapiscan to find out what's really going on.

you are arguing w/folks trained to do as they're told so their opinions RE individual freedom don't reflect the bulk of the civilian population.

Why wouldn't I do what I'm told if what I'm told doesn't bother me? Rebellion for rebellion's sake seems like a waste of energy. If you're saying I should be bothered by this... who are you to dictate people's emotions? If something doesn't upset me, I'm not going to go poking around just so I can ignite a spark of anger and paranoia in my own mind.

If my passive feelings are justified- I'm happy. If my passive feelings are ignorant- I'm happy. Either way, I'm happy. The pursuit of happiness is my right, and I've found it. I guess I win!

Oh I know about Chertoff.He's no good!You're right it is about fleecing Americans.The part that ticks me off is that they are making total fools out of these people.

I like your post Intelligent Donkey!

@gloria fabiaschi first off you mentioned what your husband did, what about you? Second, just because you feel it is intrusive and violating your rights does not mean you have the right to jepordize my life or anothe one else life. It that so hard for you to understand. If the masses do not have a problem going through the scans that is their choice. You can choose to fly or not to fly. But you cannot choose to put my life or anyone elses life in danger. If the masses agree the TSA is providing a service which they feel they need and want so be it.

Also you can come at me all day and all night and it will not change my mind about anything. Your rants are only here to make you feel needed.

@Riamus I lived and worked in Isreal for almost 2 years. They don't profile, they check everyone the same. No one is special. Get your facts straight on that because I worked with the IDF at Ben-Gurion airport. Everyone get the same scrutiny.

Again it is real simple if you don't like what is happening at the airport then don't fly. Don't subject me to have to wait in line longer because you want to rant and rave about going the screening. Stay at home and rant and rave all you want.

I just get feedup with people thinking others what to hear them rant and rave. And far are "If you don't like don't fly" comment. It is valid because why do you think I or anyone else what to hear you complain about having to be scan when I am trying to catch my flight. It does not bother me to be scanned. It does bother me that other will create a big commotion and make other wait longer because they do not want to be scan.

Keep your theatrics at home. These are the rules. Follow them. It you don't then don't fly. It is really that simple.

"so I can feel a little safer" speaks vloumes about those who say it.

Feel safer all you want, it's just a false sense of security.

The TSA isn't linked into a thorough terrorist watch list. They need to worry about those coming into the US from other countries. That's where 99.9% of the problem is.

There is almost 0 threat from regular Americans who were born and raised here, who have no history of mental health issues or criminal(terrorist/extremist) activities.

How many "elderly" and children have beem used as suicide bombers? I've never heard of any parent(terrorist) willing to sacrifice a child(under 12 or 13 years), who wasn't old enough to make that decision for themselves.

Have you? Links please.

Can anyone show actual proof that the TSA has stopped terrorist attacks with those searches? Links?

I'll take a flight that uses dogs and sniffing machines to weed out explosives, hazardous chemicals and biological agents, over TSA's "everyone is treated like they are guilty" style searches, ANY day of the week.

That's because I don't need to be made to "feel" safer in a plane(already risky if something fails), when there is more chance I will die from choking on a meal or in a car wreck.

I'd bet a large sum of $$ that at least 60% of all air travelers feel the same as I do.

You pay for air travel. As a customer, you should have a right to travel without being accosted, unless there is probable cause by your actions(past and present) or questionable activities. TSA is also paid for with our tax $.

It isn't some "privilege" that is awarded to us for being good, it's a bought and paid for service. PERIOD.

Locked/reinforced cabins(with armed pilots) practically guarantees that no 9/11 style attack is ever going to take place again on any US airline that uses those safeguards.

Let's see a test of an airline using security measures that I recommend, v.s. the ones that use the TSA.

I bet more flock to the non TSA searched flights, and feel safer(and a little more like free Americans) while they do so.

No "authority" needs to be patting down any child of mine(nor submitting them to xrays), if they nor I have never been in trouble with the law or never have been part of/flying/staying in a country known to harbor terrorists.

We do have the right to say no to unreasonable searches, and still fly on an airline that uses reasonable security measures to prevent planes from being hijacked.

Now if they are offering flights for free, then I'll see it as a "privilege", which means they can dictate whatever terms they want.

I forgot to add:

Most "elderly" folks have enough wisdom and life experience, to buy into the terrorist brainwashing and be used to kill innocents. It's usually the younger, more easily riled up individuals that are easily sucked into terrorist suicide bombings.

I'd worry more about those who have lost loved ones to military actions by the USA. They should be at the top of the profile list.

AKAP,

Thank you for confirming my point. I fully support you in doing whatever makes you feel more secure provided it doesn't infringe on my rights. But if to make you feel more secure I have to be subjected to something I find objectionable then I have to ask you to show data that it will actually make us both more secure and not just make you feel more secure.

Now I'm all about security. But IMO to catch a real terrorist with a blind search we would have to subject everyone to MRIs and exploratory surgeries before each flight. That would make me "feel" more secure but would you support that w/o data showing it was both necessary and effective? And would you be willing to pay for it each time you flew? The data shows profiling, passenger alertness, and passenger response to threat are much more effective than blind searches. Israeli profiling and US passengers subduing the panty and sneaker bombers proves these are effective while TSA's own data shows over 1B passengers searched, 25K successful breaches of their "enhanced security", and zero bad guys found; doesn't sound very effective to me. So why are we pursuing the less effective (ineffective) and more expensive approach? This isn't about security, it's about fleecing the air travelers.

Hee Haw

It sure as hell isn't me!You're talking 450billion, that's billion not million inorder to support Homeland Security, and it's Clown College the TSA!

It is a filthy waste of Money!

It also accomplishes the exact opposite of what our gvt claims to be doing. First off it makes security lines longer so on the off chance TSA finds a suicide bomber the bomber will detonate at the checkpoint and do about as much damage as had they detonated on the plane. Second it forces people like me to choose driving long distances over flying and driving is statistically more dangerous. Third, it tells the terrorists exactly where our security forces are stationed so they can attack us somewhere else. Fourth it consumes scarce resources needed for more deadly issues such as drunk driving. This is already too long but I think you get the picture and we seem to be on the same page (pun unintended).

Because there's no evidence that middle eastern Islamic terrorists have a "look". Some of them can look like pale Japanese, or redheaded Scots, even if they were born in central Whackystan.

Lol @ pat-downs and x-rays being considered "atrocities." What a sheltered comment.

They're not sheltered comments,It's the Truth! Atrocities such as Human Rights abuses.Look them up your pee brain might learn something!You're unfricken believable!

Firstly, I don't have a "pee" brain, I have a "pea" brain- it's much different :) I am outraged that you'd assert my skull is filled with urine!

Anyway, joking aside, I'm not "defending" the TSA, per se. It could be dismantled for all I care. I'm only saying that, while it exists, I don't have a problem removing my shoes, walking through a metal detector, being patted down, or scanned. If they start licking me or sticking their penises in my anus, I'll speak up.

Don't I have a right not to be blown up on a plane?

You self conscious idiots who complain about a few seconds being check for weapons need to get a clue and just walk or drive to anywhere you want to go and there will be no need for you to be scanned. I prefer to be scanned and have the person next to me on the plane get scanned as well.

JUST SHUT UP !

Because there's no evidence that middle eastern Islamic terrorists have a "look". Some of them can look like pale Japanese, or redheaded Scots, even if they were born in central Whackystan.

Profiling does not have to be about a "look". It's about more than just nationality. Profiling takes into account your actions, what you are wearing (such as not wearing a coat to Detroit in the winter), etc. Why is it that other countries have such good security when they use profiling if you think it's not good? No, it's not 100%, but add in drug/bomb sniffing dogs and it gets much better. Also, when you consider the number of tests done where someone brings a weapon through TSA security and aren't caught, it's pretty clear that anything would be better than the TSA "security."

@Mainbe: A few seconds? How about the couple hours extra that you spend waiting for the entire line to get groped? It might not take long once you're there, but you have to also take into account the time spent waiting because of it. And you also have no right to force someone else to do what you want (preferring they are scanned as well as you). And just because people disagree with you doesn't mean they don't have the right to voice their opinions. Telling them to shut up just because you don't like them disagreeing with you is childish.

Riasmus,

I tend to arrive at airports about two hours prior to my flight, then get through security with 90 minutes to spare. I've never had an issue with waiting time. I guess the problem is subjective, as patience levels vary... but I don't think it's angry-mob-worthy.

Ok, 30 minutes. Now, if you arrived 2 hours before with the previous security, how long would it take? The difference is the amount of time you wasted because of TSA. It may not be a couple hours for you, but as the line grows behind you, it will become much greater for people. Yes, there are always people in the front of the line. And there are always people at the end. If every single person arrived 2 hours before, then you might very well be at the end. If you and everyone else arrived 3 hours before, you could still be at the end. It doesn't change the amount of wasted time just because you manage to be near the front.

But everybody is constantly arriving throughout the day for their various flights. There is always an influx of people. People of all different flights are being fed through a couple security gates- I'm arriving 2 hours early for my flight, but there are people filling the line that have a flight in 10 minutes. It never seems to be a problem.

Hopefully they will figure out soon how to patdown ostomates. Once gain, the TSO screener did it all wrong and not according to procedures. I was a national media hit in November when my urostomy bag was torn off. Although this time they did not tear it off but they gave me a rough patdown and did not allow me the opportunity to have it done privately. That is against the TSA procdeure rules!

Your flawed argument is tired. TSA is not only in our airports, they have spanned the country from public waterways, greyhound stations, ferry terminals, METRO Rail and Bus stations, Amtrak, HIGH SCHOOL PROMS!? Don't you get it? This is all about control and stripping us of our rights and freedoms. These scanners have recently been deemed to have much higher radiation levels than reported by TSA and DHS under congressional hearings. TSa agents are having a rash of cancers standing near the machines all day, little children are getting naked pictures taken of them and stored in a government database and you think its NO BIG DEAL?? YOU AKap-3210990 are part of the problem if you go along with this tyrannical behavior. Do some research and stop listening to the MSM, the LIE is so big and out of control that it shouldn't be too hard for you to get to the truth.

I don't feel that my rights and freedoms have been stripped away. I still work at a great job, live in a nice house, have a wonderful girlfriend, and am happy. "Happy" - what a concept, right?

Oh no, the scans may cause CANCER!? What are we going to do??? They may cause CAAANCERRR!!! Based on how many things cause cancer, we're all going to die of it anyway. Why don't you just try to be happy instead of exercising your itchy trigger finger on your hysteria gun.

AKAP,

I'm jealous of how you went through childhood w/o having your role model adults physically abuse you in ways similar to TSA tactics with brutality added. Some of us weren't so lucky; the memories don't fade so "getting over it" really isn't on the menu. I've developed mechanisms to live almost normally w/mine but TSA crap makes it a lot more difficult to deal with and for what?

With over 1 billion travelers searched, 25,000 documented breaches of TSA security, and no bad guys found do you really think this is effective? And with the bad guys being young, fit men trained in military tactics for years while TSOs only need to have a GED and a couple weeks' training what would a TSO do if they stumbled upon a real terrorist (hint: it goes KA-BOOM)?

I understand and forgive your ignorance of people like me but please don't assume the rest of the world is like you when you post. The problem is not taxpayers w/mind ghosts like me. The problem is that our gvt is fleecing us to line the pockets of their buddies while offering this farce they call the TSA as a cover story.

Google Michael Chertoff and Rapiscan to find out what's really going on.

I guess it just doesn't directly affect my life in a outright negative fashion, so I don't care to concern myself with it. That may be an insular and selfish outlook, but I'd be lying if I said otherwise. I'm sorry that you've experienced serious hardship, but I'm just a little weary of the mass hysteria and doomsday sentiments concerning the majority of news articles. There could be an article about a spaghetti sauce recipe and people would bring up politics, religion, or national security. It seems to me that folks look for anything to get into a fit.

I just don't have a rebellious bone in my body... I suppose that relates to my great upbringing and success as a young person. I'll have to thank my parents again for influencing me very positively.

The TSA wants us to shup up and slink away too. You work for them?

I am NOT slinking away. People are assuming that those who don't act up are cowards. In reality, we simply don't care. It wouldn't ruin my day if some stranger saw my body for 10 seconds, so why whine? I just. Don't. Care. Sorry that I'm not as outraged as you.

it's becoming really clear that you are writing from a TSA office somewhere

If your paranoia would have you believe that, fine. What you think doesn't bother me. I am how I am, and I couldn't be happier. Can you say the same?

Regardless if you don't mind someone groping you or staring at your body, none of that really matters. The real issue that is being missed by so many people because everyone is fighting over whether or not the groping/scans are invasive is that the TSA is not providing any real security improvements. There have been many tests that have been done where someone (someone official) takes a weapon through without ever being caught. More times than not, these people get through. Looking at the failure rates of these tests, it's pretty clear that there isn't any real improvement to security by using the TSA. It's all in people's minds. They are buying into the hype that this is improving their security and instead of questioning whether or not that's true, they just assume it is true. In the end, TSA security really isn't much better than what we had before. Yet it costs us billions more, violates people, and makes the country look even worse than it already does to other countries.

Now, if you are truly concerned about your safety, then you should be fighting for use of profiling and bomb/drug dogs as that will greatly increase real security rather than make believe security.

HERE,HERE...AKap-3210990

Riamus, I can agree with that, which is why I said it'd be fine by me if the TSA were dismantled. It doesnt seem to be effective, and it is very costly. I'm really not "defending" the agency. I'm just trying to get people to see how unreasonable they're being about the minor inconveniences it creates. They see the letters "TSA" and their fangs immediately emerge.

Sure, if given the choice, I'd rather not be scanned. However, I'm not going to cry "INDIGNITY!" if it happens. I don't need to pretend I'm outraged to get attention.

I suppose that's the price we have to pay to at least presume the air of safety. How quickly we forget 9/11.

@Akap: I have to say, that's the first reply from you that was good. Instead of repeating the same rhetoric (as both sides keep doing), you stepped outside the box and commented on it intelligently. And that's a compliment in case it doesn't sound like it. *IF* the TSA could show that they provided a significant increase in security, where they could catch and stop much more than could be caught/stopped using other methods, then I would not mind their methods. The issue is that they cannot show any significant increase in security and so their methods are too invasive for what you get out of it. Safety is always going to be invasive in some way. But for it to be acceptable, the amount of increased security must outweigh how invasive it is. In the case of the TSA, it doesn't.

9/11 was 10 yrs ago and YA KNOW WHAT?It could of been prevented.Not by the TSA that's for sure.But by the Idiot for a President who didn't pay attention to the warnings months before.He just poohn pooh them, and Ya Know What the EXCUSE was?Oh one Department didn't talk to the other department and Blah Blah Blah Blah!POOR EXCUSE DON'T YA THINK?

So No the DAM TSA has nothing whatso ever to do with 9/11.They knew DAM Well IT WAS ABOUT TO HAPPEN AND THE S O B'S IGNORED IT.

So for god sakes leave 9/11 out of this!

Riamus, my stance the whole time has been that people are misdirecting their anger. That's my fault if I didn't communicate it effectively.

The TSA should be dismantled for monetary reasons nothing else. Sure they probably saved the airline industry by creating an illusion of safety immediately after 9/11, but now that they keep heightening security, and still showing no results, I feel like it's just turned into a money sucking black hole.

AKap though I disagree with you opinions of the TSA ( I fly 3 times a week I don't mind what the TSA does to me but I do care about my sisters and girlfriend,hopefully soon to be bride) I must thank you though for the level of respect you show for people who disagree with your views and I can't remember if you mentioned that you were/are in the military but if you are thank you for your services ( I'm pretty sure you guys do much more to protect us from terrorists then the TSA does so I belive military personal should come back home asap) I got some buddys fighting overseas

LOST: The land of the Free and the home of the Brave, if found please return to North America.

Ain't that the truth!

mike, It seems that fear is the new motto for this country but not for me.

The US government is the biggest terrorist organization on the planet... foreign governments, sovereign nations and US citizens are all targets of this mad-dog organization

Bold doesn't make your comments any better, you know.

In response to your suggestion, gun permits have done little to stop criminals from possessing guns. It's unlikely that will do much to stop terrorists from boarding planes. Of course, that it exactly what the TSA wants to do. Get people to fork over close to $200 by some estimates in order to be considered a "safe" flyer and avoid most of the TSA garbage.

I may be in the minority, but I really don't care if my privacy is violated. The government can look at whatever information they want. I have nothing to hide or be ashamed of. I'll walk around naked if indecent exposure laws are abolished.

If these were random strangers off the street who were privvy to sensitive information and would steal my identity, I'd be concerned. But they're not. It's just a harmless agency. If it's simply a power trip, I'll indulge it- no skin off my back. I guess I'm easy.

couldn't tell if you were bragging about being an exhibitionist or sucking up to authority

I'm not bragging about being an exhibitionist. I'm simply stating I'm not ashamed or embarrassed by my body. What do I care if a complete stranger sees it for a few seconds? I wish everyone could share that sentiment- it makes life a lot easier. When authority does something I'm truly outraged by, I'll stand up to it. Until then, I'll continue to be less-than-annoyed.

Do you have children?

how would you like it if your 8 year old daughter/son was being leered at or felt up by someone(a TSA worker), who was a sexual predator? It can happen. Not all perverts are known offenders and some keep it hidden. What if it's a male TSA employee that get's off on touching young boys?

It's bound to happen(or already has). If the child complains to you about something not right, you can just tell them:

"that's the price you pay for the PRIVILEGE to fly."

See how much respect that gets you from your kid, when they are old enough to understand that you p*ssied out on defending their right to not be groped.

I don't give a rat's *ss if a TSA worker can see my "junk".'

I don't want someone I don't know personally touching myself or my family in a way that can be equaled with groping.

it won't happen, though... Americans are sheep in Wal-Mart clothing... corporate America owns the government "we the people" are nothing more than consumers and subjects... your government continually breaks the law, in violation of your rights... but Americans will do nothing about it because they are controlled by the media into thinking that they are somehow "free" and lulled to inaction... before your grandchildren attain maturity, everyone on the planet will be under the domination of a police state... because every government fears nothing as much as its own population

For all the people who can't take it anymore, great- do what you feel is necessary. Just don't assume that everybody has a huge problem with it. My cooperation is not a form of cowardice. It's an easygoing nature.

I breeze through airport security in minutes, and would do so completely naked. I just don't have a problem with it, sorry.

You sir are a Sheep!That's one step above a coward.You ought to where a bell around your neck and the Goon,I mean the agent in charge will tell you far you should bend over as you breeze through airport Security.

Baaaaaaaaah Bah Baaaaaaah Bah Bah Bah!

The solution is so simple but since the US has no $#lls anymore, it will never happen. PROFILE BABY! It is what the folks in Israel do and they never have issues. Search people who fit the profile of terrorists whom want to kill us. How simple is that.

Gloria, stop throwing the word "sheep" around just because someone isn't up-in-arms over something that doesn't bother them. I'm not calling you a "sheep" just because you aren't ranting about your parents sexually abusing you.

To Japan? How on earth is that going to happen? Yes I'm planning a trip to Japan. Thanks to the idiots (err excuse me; the paranoid idiots) known as U.S. sheep I have to go by boat now. Just to avoid a scan. I'm not joking, I am going by boat. Is that drastic? No. My dignity has no price tag. I'd gladly learn to fly if it meant by-passing that humiliation (I'm referring to T.S.A. & their security)... Don't worry I'm sure the terrorists are saying "Shucks, they've got the T.S.A. guess we'd better give up.

How many planes have been blown out of the air at 30,000 since the inception of aviation? PARANOIA - will destroy ya

Envy-Eternity,

How exactly is your dignity being violated if you're scanned or patted down for 10 seconds? I mean, come on! Are you that ashamed of your own body that you can't stand if a complete stranger sees it so briefly and you cry "INDIGNITY! INJUSTICE!" I feel bad for you...

ACrap why don't you Shut the Hell Up!My parrot doesn't repeat as much Bull Sh it propaganda as you do.

People's Dignity oh and I'll Add CIVIL RIGHTS ARE BEING VIOLATED.Look up the the Constitution Brainiac, you might learn something.You've been in storage too long!

Gloria,

I'm not repeating anything I've heard- it's all coming from my own mind. I'd love to have a conversation with you in person. Would you even let me see your face, or would that be a violation of your privacy? Could I shake your hand, or would you blow a rape whistle and mace me? Like I've said to others, I just feel bad for you that your life experiences have taught you to see everything as a violation of your civility.

Seriously, calling me "ACrap" doesn't add to your credibility as a civil person.

AKap - what did you do? ...call your congressman & get your crack-baby offspring a job at the local airport sniffing @!$%#s

Papsotherboy,

Way to deflect. It's becoming very clear to me that your desire for civility is merely hypocrisy. If you must know, I'm 23 years old and have no children. I don't owe anybody any favors, except for my parents who raised me to be a mature human being.

@AKap3210990 As a rape survivor having some stranger fondle the top, sides, underneath and nipple area of my breasts is an affront to my dignity. Having someone touch both my labia (and whatever else they want of my vaginal area) and running their hands between my butt cheeks is definitely an affront to my dignity. Having someone pull out my waistband of my pants and look down them is an affront to my dignity. Especially as this happens in front of a room full (possibly hundreds) of strangers, I totally find all of that horrifying and humiliating. I would never allow a some random person on the street to do these things to me, so why is it ok when it is the goverment? I refuse to go through the scanners as I am on my third bout with cancer and have reached the upper levels of lifetime exposure to radiation and I prefer not to develop a secondary form of cancer. My doctor doesn't even treat me with radiation anymore due to the levels, I am being treated with alcohol ablation this time around. I am glad that you don't find it humiliating to let a stranger do these things to you in public but I do. I am also offended at being treated as a criminal by my goverment when I have done nothing wrong. And that is what these searches boil down too, everyone being searched by the TSA is guilty in their eyes (otherwise why the need for the search?) The police are not allowed to just randomly search people and their purses or luggage, they have to have a reasonable suspicion to go forward with the search and alot of times they are required to get a warrant to search. The police are not allowed to touch citizens in the manner that the TSA does for that would be sexual assault/harrassment. I have been against the TSA and the Patriot Act since the begining. I have said Amercians have given the goverment to much control and given up their freedoms through fear. We have become "sheeple" instead of people. Especially as the only people getting searched are American citizens, not Muslims, not pilots, not private planes and their passengers and so on. These people are just allowed to stroll through without being scanned or searched, yup that sure is effective and safe. I am not sure if you will see my point or not and that is fine, you totally have the right to tell me I am being hysterical and so on (as I am sure you will as you have said that to others who have stated points along the lines of mine and that is fine, you are entitled to your opinion) I am only trying to give you a look into another persons perspective.

Body scan vs losing my family on a blown up plane because someone's feels their rights are being violated. Losing hundreds of lives is better than a body scan ? If you are that sensitive about it, just don't fly. I'd would much rather be scanned than be in danger, or have my family's lives ruined because someone is worried about his or her rights.

I think you missed the point Joel. It is not scanned but rather groped that I object to. If they get off looking at a short, bald, chubby 60 year old male, then have fun and enjoy. I do not touch others in an inappropriate manner so do not touch me. How many of the terrorist bombers and hijackers have been dying little old ladies wearing depends? America has lost it's common sense to political correctness. What bothers me more than someone wanting to kill me is the people that think giving up their rights and dignity will stop them let alone reduce the threat. There are ways to reduce the risks without the loss of either. Americans have been so brainwashed by the above mentioned political correctness thought process that it will never happen.

that's the problem... some people like it... beats me why some people can't feel safe unless they have some mental dwarf pushing them around