Lions and tigers and bears, oh my.

Issues issues issues.

Being paranoid about a business being paranoid.

Nope; don't offer any solutions or personal advice on how to get through easier. Being an attack forum poster is the equivalent of hitting the easy button - requires no thought.

retarded post

The dumb (and all other names they get called) media are still smarter than the chronic attack posters. Are you upset? Well you better click on our page about 1000 times and tell us all about your anger.

Attack posts voice the same arguments endlessly - guess what; if you frequent forums, you have read the opinions of attackers so many times that you can stereo the next line in your head as the attacker is typing it.

At least be funny when attacking - otherwise we may think you are really miserable being forced to live among other humans.

What, no option to go through naked?

two words: ROAD TRIP!

If god intended all men to fly, you'd have a set of wings growing out your back. Flying is simply a man made luxury.

Flying is not luxury in many cases. That's why God gave us a brain to be able to figure out how to get from pt A to pt B faster.

It sounds like you and grandpa had a special relationship...

How to avoid a pat down? Start groping the TSA agent first! You'll go to jail (and the police will search you), but at least you avoided the TSA patdown...

nice try, but i wore a tank top, cropped yoga pants and even a plastic belly button ring and not only did i get the groping, but got everything wiped down for trace explosives. guess they thought my name hooked me up to the IRA

I wouldn't fear a Smurf but you never know what scares the TSA.

Look for your name here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_members_of_the_Irish_Republican_Army#The_Official_Irish_Republican_Army_.26_Post-Independence:_1922-present

Returning from my trip to Puerto Vallarta, I decided to dress VERY plain to prevent a pat down........WRONG! in addition to the x rays, the body pat down, they checked my nicely braided hair...oh well, at least she was sort of "funny" when she padded my head!



This is where there should be lawsuits. There can be no excuse for complaining resulting in an invasive search except for punishment and retaliation. I doubt Joe Q Terrorist is going to make a scene at the scanner; He's going to be the most polite, understanding individual ever.

This whole "homeland security" is a damned joke. Only citizens and the innocent are punished, and I haven't heard of any plots being foiled due to the TSA fondling children and the elderly.

I've seen way to many times when people approach the security checkpoint and immediately start yelling. I see people do this constantly - and usually their friend is there recording it while they try to goad the agents into doing something.

I've seen people yell obscenities at the TSA agents. I've seen people yell what can only be described as verbal child pornography at the agents.

I've seen agents get intentionally whacked in the head with purses and backpacks.

I've seen agents get physically assaulted, being pushed and punched. I've seen agents get beaned in the head with water bottles and bottles of shampoo.

I've never seen a TSA agent assault someone. I've never seen an agent grope a child. I've never seen a TSA agent grope an adult.

I've never seen anyone get pulled aside for extra screening who didn't either cause an alarm on the metal detector or body scanner, or who wasn't acting aggressive in line.

What exactly do you think gives you the right to assault a person for doing their job?

If you disagree with the policies, then fight the policies where it will do some good - in Congress - and don't assault the people on the front lines.

Most of you never fly. If you do, it is once or twice a year. So, all this anger you all have is based upon a few news stories of people acting badly, not on anything that happened that you personally witnessed.

I fly four times a week.

Since 9/11 I've only been patted down once - and I know it was because I was in a foul mood and was muttering under my breath at the slow people in front of me.

So, if everyone stopped being @!$%#s, I am sure the lines would move much more quickly.

Stop blaming the agents. Talk to your congressperson.

What exactly do you think gives you the right to assault a person for doing their job?

When their job is breaking the law I think it's perfectly fine to assault them, but only in the same way they assault the public. Once they do a pat they should have the same done in return.

With a budget somewhere between eight and nine trillion...yes, TRILLION...I think I know where the country could shave off a bit of that debt we've been buried under. Ihe TSA is a hugh waste of time. Dogs do a better job of detecting bombs than those idiots. You may not have seen anything you think is wrong but others have. You want to tell me you think it's okay for a grown man or woman to rub their hands over a child's crotch? Why don't you try it sometime and see what happens to you. If ever someone did that to one of my grandchildren it would be the last time they did it, TSA or not.

Terrorists are intelligent, motivated, and willing to die for their cause. They plot and scheme up ways to defeat our security systems. On our side we have TSOs with a GED, a couple weeks training, and a specific procedure to follow. They punch a clock, follow the procedure, and collect their paycheck. Does anyone out there think TSA has any chance of catching a terrorist this way?

TSA is a complete waste of taxpayer and traveler money but it is lining the pockets of Michael Chertoff and his buddies at Rapiscan. Why don't you google them to find out what's really going on. It has nothing to do w/security and everything to do w/fleecing us.

I can't understand what most of the TSA agents are saying. Most of them have heavy foreign accents, especially in Newark or they are barely literate.

Benjamin-846344



This is where there should be lawsuits. There can be no excuse for complaining resulting in an invasive search except for punishment and retaliation. I doubt Joe Q Terrorist is going to make a scene at the scanner; He's going to be the most polite, understanding individual ever.

This whole "homeland security" is a damned joke. Only citizens and the innocent are punished, and I haven't heard of any plots being foiled due to the TSA fondling children and the elderly.

-----------------------

I haven't heard of any plots period involving elderly and children

I get picked "at random" each and every time I fly. The first time it happened, I was pleasant and polite in the line. I had my ID and boarding pass ready. I was not wearing any jewelry or metal. There was nothing suspicious in my small bag. I was wearing only a body hugging dress and underwear. No pockets, no items on my person, etc. I didn't even get to go through the metal detector; I was immediately waved to the body scanner. The body scan was "inconclusive" so a groping was required though there was absolutely nothing on my body other than metal free, stretchy clothing that offered no possible hiding place. I was in the security line for nearly half an hour. During that time, not a single other person was picked for either the body scan or the groping...including the woman dripping in jewelry who tripped the metal detector 7 times!!

After receiving this treatment on four separate occasions where I did absolutely NOTHING to deserve it, I will no longer fly. If I can't drive, I'll just stay home. I'm done.

Bravo!!!!

It's not a Fourth Amendment violation because you have taken affirmative steps that constitute consent to be searched. This has been the law of the land since 1973.

Steve-1840260, that was a beautiful rant, but like most it was flawed from the beginning. (1) Flying is not a Constitutional Right, it's a privilege. (2) You stated, "Yes, if TSA stops doing what it is doing, planes may be blown up. Maybe we'll have another 9/11. Maybe we'll have 911 more 9/11s. It will be sad, people will be hurting and mourning. But that is the price we pay for liberty." Steve are you smoking crake? On 9/11, 3 planes were hijacked, thousands of people died horribly, and the Airlines were shut down for about a week. As a result, the American economy was basically shut down and millions (probably billions) of dollars was lost. (Remember, when you shut down the Airlines in America, you also disrupt the airlines throughout the world. Thus, this effected the Global economy.) (3) Now,let's say we did take your flawed advise and get rid of TSA and KABOOM , planes start to fall out the sky like 9/11 every week. Thousands of people die, maybe your own friends and relatives. Airlines are forced to shut down again and the World economy goes flat line every week, all because Steve doesn't want to be pat down at airport security. Who are you going to blame then? TSA? (4) Steve, if you don't want to go thru airport security and possibly get a pat down, DON'T FLY!!!! Just Say No and drive from coast to coast. The Oil Barons will love you for it. (5) Why is it that we Americans always think we have a Constitutional Right for everything.
No More 9/11s

NoMore,

Actually, depending upon airplane type, flight plan and lenght of trip (miles, not time) driving may be more fuel economical than flying. Jet fuel is made from the same crude oil as diesel or gasoline.

Oh, btw, the Constitution grants us all rights not expressly reserved to the Federal government or the states. Ergo, we cannot print our own currency, but we can print store coupons. Most people would lump flying into this category as part of free interstate commerce.

Now the fondling principals of our nation!

I guess if you want to stand up for your freedom in this case, don't fly anywhere. The TSA isn't doing random pat downs on the street. You are forewarned it may happen when you enter an airport. Everyone knows this. I don't know how effective or ineffective it is, I've only been patted down once and wasn't particularly offended by it, but if you are, stay out of the airport and you'll be fine.

Flying may not be a right but protection against unlawful search and seizure is. No, buying a ticket does not constitute permission to be groped. It does not grant the right to sexually abuse a child (Try running your hands over some boy or girl and see where you end up). No, it does not grant the right for someone to run their hands under your bra (I've seen men slapped for doing less). It does not grant anyone the right to break a man's urostomy bag and soak his trousers with urine (how much fun would that be sitting next to him for the duration of the flight).

The TSA operates on an annual budget between eight and nine TRILLION. All this and they've never stopped a bomber. Why? Because all the examples they give for the reason to molest people were people flying TO the US from overseas. Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, who's own father alerted the CIA about his son, was flying from Amsterdam. Note, the CIA did nothing to stop him because they thought it would mess up an investigation into al-Qaeda. So much for protecting Americans.

Richard Colvin Reid was denied entry on a flight leaving from Paris because of his appearance...but was allowed to leave the next day. Nice.

Then comes our buddy Olajide Oluwaseun Noib. The one time the TSA could have done something right and what happens? Expired boarding pass sir? No problem. Not even in your name? Well, mistakes happen. Go right ahead and enjoy your flight.

The list goes on. TSA is a huge waste of taxpayer money and needs to be done away with. They'd be better of profiling. Quicker and cheaper. Tough if some Arab's feelings get hurt.

Rob286309: You need to check your facts.

The TSA's total operating budget for 2010 was $42.7 Billion not "8-9 Trillion annually".

You can go to the TSA website to verify.

Buying a ticket is not consent to be groped, but it does constitute consent to be searched which may include a pat down. Police pat downs are more similar to the resolution pat down from TSA. The standard TSA pat down is similar to a juvenile Parole Officer pat down of a juvenile. Why are those two pat downs constitutional and a TSA pat down not? Because you say so?

TSA pat downs, done correctly, are parallel with standard law enforcement pat downs. That is, not abuse, sexual molestation, or groping. If a TSA agent gropes you then press charges. If not then you either like being groped, or more likely, you know that it wasn't groping. It's hard for me to believe a parent that thinks TSA searches are sexual molestation but then continues to subject their child to it.

"Don't fly," No More 9/11s says--as if that were actually an option. Why should those of us who are not afraid to fly be the ones to find alternate ways to travel? You're the worrier--why don't you walk?

Yeah? TSA pat downs, done correctly, are parallel with standard law enforcement pat downs. That is, not abuse, sexual molestation, or groping. If a TSA agent gropes you then press charges. If not then you either like being groped, or more likely, you know that it wasn't groping. It's hard for me to believe a parent that thinks TSA searches are sexual molestation but then continues to subject their child to it.

------------------------

From what i gather they do press charges but they also get thrown out because it is ruled TSA was in the right and did a legal pat down. The child may be subjected to it again unless you are going to drive or you're not flying overseas .

Flying is considered a privilege only because the government decided that's the way it is going to be. There was a time when a person who was inventive enough could just go fly without all the paperwork and fees. And they could do so with passengers. Of course there was no revenue in that, so there had to be some laws passed to regulate things. Same with driving on the "open" road. Much of this regulation really got out of hand when the insurance lobbyists into the picture. After all, why not make people behave so they can save money on claims. Now almost nobody questions these things...sad.

Perhaps the next civil war will be the patriots who love freedom against the anal retentive megalomaniacs stating that our basic RIGHT of free movement is a privilege. The childishly frightened fools demanding to be deluded into feeling secure by an expensive, degrading facade of security should be forced to pay for it out of their own pocket. And there should be flights WITHOUT the ridiculous security for those of us with a brain, a little fortitude, and an appreciation for our personal dignity.

Also, I take extreme offense to the fact that MY taxes are paying some incompetent moron to legally molest a 6 year old.

So now that planes can not be used as weapons since the cockpits are locked down, TSA and Homeland Security is protecting the persons that are on the plane. Next they will protect us on buses, trains, stadiums and our home. America is now what we despised about Russia after the second World War.

You're right Rick. We did not defeat the "evil empire" as Ronald Reagan said; we became it.

Yeah?

There are a few problems with your arguments. First off TSOs around here only need to have a GED then they get a couple of weeks' training and are considered professionals qualified to judge when it is reasonable to violate someone's person. Police are given much more education and training, are under constant scrutiny, and are held to a much higher standard of conduct. They are also paid more and know that should they commit a crime cops in prison don't live long so they personally have more skin in the game.

Secondly, when a police officer pats down a suspect that suspect has done something to give justifiable cause which a reasonable person would agree causes a creditable threat to the officer's safety. Are you arguing that a reasonable person seeing someone else purchase an airline ticket and having no additional information would therefore conclude that a creditable threat of danger existed?

I would agree w/you if the purchase were made in cash, was a one way ticket, there was no luggage, and the purchaser had a history of travel to nations known to harbor terrorists. But there I go profiling again, gee maybe we should try profiling. Has anyone ever thought of that? <sarcasm intended>

Hear, hear.

Lanzy666

I have no carry ons of any kind. I have my boarding pass and a single creidt card and cell phone in my front shirt pocket. I also wear slip on sandals and loose comfortable clothes. I breeze through security like it isn't there.

------------------

What if it's winter ?

Then why are we spending $42 billion for them to be there? The frightened minions should be paying for this service, not the taxpayers.

As an abuse survivor I assure you the worst thing you can do is remain silent. If the TSO remembers you and sees your daughter again they may see her as an easy victim.

I suggest folks in similar situations first clear security keeping their mouths shut, get all your possessions including ID, have a TSO tell you that you have cleared security, exit the security area toward the gates, then ask to speak to the supervisor and the TSO who touched your daughter and if possible the one who looked at the scan of her. Ask them to show you why she was selected for additional screening, take notes, and ask for as many details as you can get. If they are taking notes ask why or better still don't let them and ask for more details then they'll be able to remember if they are just making them up. Then file a complaint w/TSA/DHS and name names and give details; it will have to be investigated.

Even if you just get the run around you will show your daughter that you share her distaste for it and are being proactive about it while TSA will be the ones looking inept. If the TSO is a pedophile you are also burning your face in their memory bank of things that can get in the way of their satisfying their "need". If they are a pedophile they will look for other victims, if not they will at least acknowledge you as a concerned parent and double check that they have just cause in the future.

About time someone told it how it is. Women get pap smears and men get prostate checks everyday. Are you complaining about those tests. Nobody forces you to go on an airplane as well as nobody forces you to have preventative medicine tests performed. It's your decision to make. If you agree to it, then you get what may be coming to you. TSA pat downs are not nearly as personal as the above tests.

Yes, but at least my gynecologist behaves respectfully and has a code of ethics he must follow.

Nobody enjoys a pap smear or a prostate exam. My obgyn spent about 15 years in university and medical school, so he/she is qualified to do this. Most TSA agents are overly empowered mall cop mentaility people.

Airport security in the UK and Israel has always been way tighter than TSA ever dreamed of being. The difference is that these people are well paid and well trained and are consummate professionals and most importantly treat everyone wiht dignity and respect. TSA needs to take some lessons from them.

I gotta agree w/lemur here. Would you rather have a surgeon perform surgery on you or a mall cop? Where I live TSA is hiring TSOs and requires a GED and no experience. How can you compare that to my Dr. with 12 yrs of initial college, med school, internship, etc., and at least one week long professional symposium each year for the over 20 yrs he's been practicing?

So after doing peek and grope on over 1 Billion travelers and TSA records showing over 25,000 breaches of their "enhanced security", how many terrorists have we caught? That would be zero.

anthony,

I agree with except for one point. MOST people fly less than once a year. As such, the whole TSA regime is a new experience. I'm sure that after having not flown in nearly three years, I would find some of the new procedures uncomfortable. And my wallet, rings and ticket do not leave my sight ever, that what the little bowls they used to use were for. Immediately visible and wandable.

well said sir

Well Matt, if they're traveling to Japan like you i really don't think they have a choice NOT to fly.

Traveling is a privilege, If you want to leave your city you will need to understand that it is for your protection that we search you.

Shopping is a privilege, if you are not a criminal why are you objecting to being searched before going to WalMart. If we let everyone in, they could bring in an explosive or biological weapon and hundreds of people would die.

Rick,

TSA released documents showing over 25,000 breaches of their "enhanced security". They've searched over 1 billion travelers and caught zero bad guys. The bad guys are fit, young, trained, armed soldiers willing to die for their cause while we have middle aged, overweight TSOs with a GED and a couple of weeks training who punch a clock, follow a procedure, and collect a paycheck. Do you really think our TSOs could handle a real terrorist? Does this TSA farce really make you feel more secure?

Google Michael Chertoff and Rapiscan to find out what's really going on (aka the fleecing of America).

Smaller gvt. w/a focus on local gvt.

You should still be terrified. Do you really think that terrorist cannot or will not find a way to a plane if they planned it out. They may even have someone working on the inside for help. What you simply said is your own personal sense of safety. Or if they are wealthy enough, travel by personal jet and once at the designated airport, walk to the designated plane directly from theirs bypassing security altogether. If there is a means there is a way.

Do you really think that terrorist cannot or will not find a way to a plane if they planned it out

That is the point. They are not doing anything but providing a FALSE sense of security to the terminally frighted sheep. Stop throwing away taxpayer dollars at this!

You apparently don't know where your vagina is.

Talk like this is only inflammatory.

No one has touched your vagina besides yourself, your lovers, and your doctor.

Cassivella,

How would you KNOW where Susan was touched?

Get real, Cassivella. She knows where her vagina is. And here you are defending the douches that touch her there (pun intended).

My point is that if you are going to accuse someone of molesting you, you should get the terminology correct.

Your vagina is the muscular tube.

The labia, which are the "lips" on the outside, may have been touched.

It is a sad state of affairs when a woman does not know where her vagina is.

Thank you, Cassivella. It's indeed sad that so many women (I'd say the majority) don't know their vagina from their vulva.

It's indeed sad that so many women (I'd say the majority) don't know their vagina from their vulva.

I always thought they were attached, but I wasn't very good in Biology.

Henry

Yup, very sad.

My college roommate thought urine and menstrual blood came out of the same opening.

My response: "what are you, a frog?"

I fly a lot and consider myself a courteous traveler, no carry on luggage, no laptop, nothing in my pockets, in fact, I've never ever set off a security scanner which I'm pretty proud of!

The last time I flew I was standing in line waiting to go through the scanner and they pulled me aside, no alarm or anything, I went through the Body Scanner which led directly to the pat down line. The woman reached under my bra and squeezed the tops of my boobs, I mean what could I possibly be hiding in my breasts?

I cried in the bathroom for about a half an hour and will never fly through that airport again, my extended family can come see me. In fact, just thinking about it now is making me tear up again.

I'm really very sorry that happened to you, meme. I have a standard response to those bozos who like to say "If you don't like it, don't fly." My response is, "Why don't YOU go a different way and let those of us who aren't frightened avoid all this TSA bullcrap?" Honestly, the level of fear some people has makes them positively unAmerican.