Rage-N, do you really think they do not profile now? Of course they do. That is not to say that they are not required to pat-down a certain number of other people as well. Who knows, they may have a quota. My daughter had a very nasty pat-down experience. The agent was rude and unpleasant. On my last trip across country, however, the TSA people were courteous and friendly. Generally, we're probably not talking about very educated people (this isn't Israel) and some of the training may not "stick" the way it is intended.

Just a little thought about profiling. The DEA profiled guys from Columbia smuggling cocaine into the US, the cartels caught on and started using pretty young white girls to smuggle drugs through airports. Terrorists aren't that stupid, and they aren't all brown. I'd rather they stop middle aged white men instead, I don't want my plane being bombed because there's an abortion doctor on board and some crazy white christian thinks its wrong. I would feel safer.

wow Vanda1s, how do you go from middle eastern terrorists to abortion clinic bombers? tsa and hitler's ss are not too far apart. given a gun, and official approval, many of these tsa idiots would shoot anyone looking at them wrong.

we have spent $100s of billions of dollars on homeland security because some terrorists used box cutters to crash planes. we dont need bigger government to protect us from that. let some freak with a box cutter try to take over a plane now. good old american will-to-survive will take care of the punk.

Vanda1, Sounds like you prefer to live in a country with no freedoms, no voice in the government, no individual rights. There are plenty of them in this world, please pick one to go to.

America is the ONLY nation who has the US Constitution that guarantees individual rights and "our" government is doing what they can to take that away from us. It is under "domestic enemies" in the US Constitution.

Significantly every Federal employee from the President on down, takes an oath to support and defend the Constitution and not an individual leader, ruler, office, or entity. This is true because the Constitution is based on lasting principles of sound government that provides balance, stability, and consistency through time. A government based on individuals—who are inconsistent, fallible, and often prone to error—too easily leads to tyranny on the one extreme or anarchy on the other.

I, ____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God."

The Oath stresses that supporting and defending the US Constitution is above "... will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter" which is because to do otherwise means you are abetting "domestic enemies" in destroying this Nation. Supporting and defending the US Constitution is also above protecting the POTUS and taking orders from officers in the military Oath. Because the US Constitution defines our government, without it their is no USA.

Yep, couldn't agree more........every agency in the country "profiles" except the TSA!

TSA has never caught a terrorist!

I refuse xray and I ALWAYS was sent to the private search area and stripped. I would inform the agent I have a fear of nudity in public and it is documented in my medical record. I also do not wear underwear. As soon as the agent touches me I piss all I can (usualy all over the agent). All I can do is apologize because that is my reaction to being touched by someone I do not know. They know me at Ohare. They no longer do anything to be beyond a wand search.

Rocks to have a doctors record of uncontrollable urine and bowls in embarrassing situations. Nothing like pissing on someone legally. I keep my Drs info on me at all times and if they have an issue they can call. i have currently pissed on 5 TSA agents with no recourse.

Rocks to have a doctors record of uncontrollable urine and bowls in embarrassing situations. Nothing like pissing on someone legally. I keep my Drs info on me at all times and if they have an issue they can call. i have currently pissed on 5 TSA agents with no recourse.

I LOVE YOU!!! :) FR Sent.

It should be all or nothing. If there are going to be pat downs, then everyone should be subject. To pick and choose at random out of the security line seems a little fishy. I have never been patted down at any airport, so why this child? Was everyone in that line given the same treatment? If not, then as a mother myself, I would not stand for it. Equality for all.

I don't blame this mother.

I wouldn't have yelled at the TSA worker, but I would have demanded to see every supervisor in the place and told them to call in the local news as well.

This crap has got to stop.

Hey old Fat Guy, TSA prevents one hand gun from making it through security each week and numerous kinves and other weapons. This is inTulsa! Can't imagine what TSA is quietly and professionally protecting the flying public from at a major airport.

An ape can pick lice off another apes ass all day long and not be bothered. Humans brush up against each other and they are both reaching for their cell phone to dial 911.

If you can't be touched, or allow our children to be touched without making it a Federal case - then stay home. You guys say some of the comments are making leaps here - well a TSA agent touching you and a molester touching you are just as big a leap.

You guys would never make it as hippies - a brother or sister would come up to hug you and you would freak out - and the call us freaks...lmao.

As an aging hippie, I take exception to your comment.

Hugging is good: being frisked is bad.

You don't know from hippies.

Tina; I don't know who you hang out with - but the hippies I know clearly know a pat down (or as you see it, a frisk) from a grope. I've seen the wanna be hippies who are only there because they think there is some "free love" thing going on - and I'll inform you that I am among the first to escort those people way.

Were you one of the college hippies? Those were not hippies. An activist who was only into the scene for the 4 years they went to college - are not hippies.

Then there are the "snob" hippies; those who only think someone from a very specific time frame can be hippies. So if you are a hippie - will I be seeing you at Phish August 5 & 6? (if you make that last statement about the concert an issue then I'll know you are just another person looking to argue - my little hippie tests. I have liar tests to...lol)

Real brothers and sisters have each others backs - they don't automatically look to challenge each other over semantics.

If this is so traumatic, what do they go through when they have to go to the gynecologist or have a prostate exam - I guess they just refuse and let cancer kill them.

If the TSA only finds just one kid who is being used as a mule by an adult - then to me it is worth it.

As for the person who took the leap to relating this to a God - well you have to expect that after years and years of people automatically putting out their pro god messages - that eventually those who are offended by them, would naturally (eventually) strike first - it's called evolution. BTW; I'm Spiritual - you don't need a manual to have faith.

I believe there are more instances of the abridgement of freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments by those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations.

James Madison

Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves.

Abraham Lincoln

Freedom is never voluntarily given by the oppressor; it must be demanded by the oppressed.

Martin Luther King, Jr.

The cost of freedom is always high, but Americans have always paid it. And one path we shall never choose, and that is the path of surrender, or submission.

John F. Kennedy

If the freedom of speech is taken away then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter.

George Washington

Freedom means you are unobstructed in living your life as you choose. Anything less is a form of slavery.

Wayne Dyer

For to be free is not merely to cast off one's chains, but to live in a way that respects and enhances the freedom of others.

Nelson Mandela

If you want total security, go to prison. There you're fed, clothed, given medical care and so on. The only thing lacking... is freedom.

Dwight D. Eisenhower

Pervading nationalism imposes its dominion on man today in many different forms and with an aggressiveness that spares no one. The challenge that is already with us is the temptation to accept as true freedom what in reality is only a new form of slavery.

Pope John Paul II

I have never in my life read such stupid comments from some of you ppl. Get off your duff, read the Patroit Act, among other laws, you will see that our freedoms are becoming non-existent. Critism of elected officials wii land you in jail, one wrong word to a cop will get you tasered, this country is going to hell in a handbasket.

People.. people... people... terrorists use any and all people that they can to perform their horrific deeds. They are cowards. We have all seen it all as a nation to these atroctites. That is why it is called "Terrorism". It makes us live in terror and do stupid things. I would rather be patted down by a TSA agent, then having my plane kill others (including myself) in an act of terrorism because some baby, elder person, disabled person etc. was used as a weapon of mass distruction. Terrorists don't care about the humans they use to get the deed done. They just do it. I agree that some things need to be changed in regards to some of the screening procedures as far as "delicate" situations. If you don't want to be a part of the "screening"... then maybe you should find another mode of transportation.

I have not been subjected to a pat down or strip search. But you know what I'll take it if I am asked to. It is a possible requirement to board a plane now. A lot of people are complaining about not being able to text and drive or when they have to turn off their cell phones on the plane or in a hospital. Kids complain because mom sends them to school. The threat of terrorism is a part of the world now like it or not. If our government stepped back and didn't do anything you people who are complaining would be the first and loudest to bitch if something were to happen. These agents aren't raping anyone. They are trying to protect us all. Who are you to jeopardize my security because you feel violated. It is a part of flying now. Get over it or drive,walk swim ,whatever. Just stay off my plane.

they need 2 lines at airports: one line for people like me who understand what security means and just want to get on their plane and not wait in 3 hour lines and will go through the x-rays and metal detectors and such without trouble, and the other line is for the people who want to bitch and complain all day about it and take 3 hours to do anything... seriously, if you have such a problem with it then why even bother standing in the line?! you know you're gonna bitch anyway so just walk into the airport and go to the management and complain right away, don't go stand in line and waste everyone else's time! flying is a luxury and you're subject to their rules not your own, get over it!

I use to love to soar up high--But now I'd rather die then fly--What they do today just galls--Humiliate and feel your balls--America, the land of free--But not for you, and not for me--So when they say please stretch and bend--My days of flight will surely end.

I find this very interesting since my two year old grandson was put through the full body scanner last month. They were ridiculous to expect a two year old to stand there with his legs apart and his arms up over his head. What the HE** is going on in Nashville. I know this town is not that crazy so I'm wondering if there is a TSA agent who thinks this is funny or just gets his kicks submitting kids to this!!!! This is crazy and needs to be checked out.

TSA doing a grope session on an adult is one thing, as adults we just need to get over this part. However copping a feel on children is a no-no. We teach our kids that any adult "touching" you this way is wrong & offensive.

Those of you who keep supporting the people in office, who continually strip our freedoms, need to be shot.

The Patriot Act is one nasty infringement on our rights ( and I am a conservative). President Bush should be ashamed of himself for it and President Obama is no different for re-signing it again.

Reminds me of George Orwells 1984.

No one is forcing anyone to get on a plane and there is no right to get on a plane without security screening listed in the Constitution. You don't have to like TSA workers, but most are just trying to do their job. What gives people the right to threaten or berate them? Would you want to be the one that let a bomber through security?

'They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.'

- Benjamin Franklin

The TSA may have confiscated a few knives and a couple of handguns - but these are from idiots, not terrorists. All the justifcation for their methods comes from incidents that has nothing to do with TSA. For example, the "underwear bomber" whose explosives set his pants on fire, boarded the plane in a different country. Once we have given up all our freedoms for security on a plane, terrorists will start bombing coffee shops, malls, etc. We will then be subjected to the same violations when we approach any public building, and it will get worse and worse until we won't be able to leave our homes unless we strip naked in front of the world. Wake up had some great quotes - especially from Nelson Mandela - for total security, go to prison.

To those who fly and say "it's worth it to feel safe and not worry about being blown up" and "if you don't like it, don't fly":

Do you also not get in cars, or walk down the street because you might get killed? Every time you get in a plane, you take the chance it's going to crash anyway (although the risk is small) without the help of a terrorist - and you still choose to fly. I'm sure you still choose to get in a car - and the risk of dying in a car accident is far greater.

I say get rid of the TSA violations and take a small chance of terrorism - and if you don't like it, don't fly.

yes, terrorists will use non stereotypical mules to get thru screening if we don't pat down/screen 100%.. but even if we do screen 100% and do full body cavity searches, something will still get thru... we are not smarter or more imaginative then the terrorist.. we aren't.. we aren't ruthless... so why bother?

or rather why waste time on the less likely...

if we understand their goal and their desire and ther ruthlessness, and know to what lengths they will go thru to attack and violate innocent civilians will we or should we just cower and keep on taking it up the arse? or should we fight fire with fire? should we become just as ruthless? should we learn to not be so concerned with violating their vivil freedom and or their rights???

we can either learn to accept this los sof freedom and loss of income or we can stop this BS now... drop a few bomps pretend we are muslims extermist for a while and take care of business and buy ourselves some peace of mind for a while...

once they know we will do what we gotta do and we arent a toothless dog, they will back down... i promise... for that is all they understand...

@krissyfish and tina - did you read the article? The reason this child was chosen is because the mother refused to allow her daughter to go through the scanner, had she allowed her daughter to go through the scanner, she would not have been subjected to the pat down.

Flying is not a right, therefore, you are not having any rights stripped away from you by being subjected to the scans or pat downs. Yes, the TSA is a government agency, but the airlines are private business. You can choose to fly, at which time, you are going to be subjected to the screening mandated in order to fly. If you don't like it, don't fly. There is also the option of flying with smaller airlines, many of these terminals don't have body scanners, you simply walk through the old fashioned metal detectors.

How about this.... we follow the TSA people home and start touching their families private parts?????

I understand the need for security.... got it.....

But touching a little girl there is just rediculous

They are lucky it was not my little girl I would have punched the guy in the head...

We are going to have to start takeing the power away from our government officials...

They blew it...

We need to hire private companies to take care of this that will use the kind of cat scan, xrays, etc etc that will make pat downs a thing of the past.

They should be sued for thios and the mother have her name cleared.

You are correct "Old Fat Guy" nor will they ever catch any terrorists by singling out 95 year old and 4 and 5 year old children....They need to profile, it only makes sense in this day and time.

Danno-3745131Hey old Fat Guy, TSA prevents one hand gun from making it through security each week and numerous kinves and other weapons. This is inTulsa! Can't imagine what TSA is quietly and professionally protecting the flying public from at a major airport.

Only one problem with that statement, these items would be found with a standard metal detector, like they used to have at airports, pre-9/11! They don't need to get their jollies groping kids and 90 year olds, or using a scanner to see through our clothes to find those items. These new methods have done absolutely nothing to actually stop any terrorists, nor will they ever.

"Old Fat Guy", you clearly don't understand the concept of security. It is largely a preemptive measure. You implement it as a means of preventing something from happening - like preventing a terrorist from taking action agianst you. If you owned a home security system, you wouldn't get rid of it on the grounds that it never caught a thief. You own it and put a sign outside saying "This home protected by ADT" or whatever company, that way a thief knows that security measure is there, and decides it is a better idea not to take action.

People easily dismiss security as ineffective because there are no tangible results when security works well. Then, once something catastrophic happens, such as September 11th, people are suddenly outraged that security isn't strong enough.

Groping? Really? If there was groping going on - then we would have a real story. Where does this worst case scenario come from - of, that's right - they allowed the fear tactic to affect their every day life.

I've flown over 10 times in the last year - haven't seen a grope yet. I also haven't seen a male pat down a female or vice versa. The people who get checked are usually the rookie fliers who can't follow instructions and get all of what they need to get, into the bins that go through the first scanner. The same people are too self absorbed to turn off their electronic when told too.

If a rebel like myself can go through every time and not get checked - then you should be able to also. You can tell some people - but you can't tell them much (love that bumper sticker).

@eric house, the TSA people are just doing their job. It isn't like the TSA people that you see in the airports are the ones creating the rules, just enforcing them. It is like getting angry at the cop for doing his job.

And for the people who are complaining that it is their right to fly and they need to fly for work (which I doubt is this case), remember if you fly, you need to play by their rules. If you don't want to, learn how to fly and buy your own private plane.

I can't believe all the posts about freedom being taken away. This doesn't attack your freedom anymore than laws about not being able to speed, smoke, buy guns without waiting period etc. You don't have full 1st amendment rights either, don't see you mention that, everyone is restricted there as well!!! Get over it. I'd rather put up with a few patdowns than worry the whole time the plane is in flight.

And as to those who spout quotes about freedom. If I am less concerned about safety, than I feel more free! So let the patdowns continue!

drainbramage-

I said I was an aging hippie. I was a hippie in the 60's.

Phish wasn't around in the 60's.

There: I made an issue of it.

Security dude...

Random checks do NOTHING!

Terrorists can take their chances on if their number comes up.

I stand on what I said. TSA and that includes you has never caught a terrorist. You spend all your time collecting things like sandwiches and toothpaste while counting people to determine who gets searched.

I remember a middle eastern looking male in line one day with shoes three sizes too big and he walks thru while my 75 year old american friend gets the third degree search.

The TSA has yet to catch a terrorist. Government waste!

Tina; of the 23 of us who are going, 3 are over 73 years old. Either you are a hippie or you are not - no such thing as an aging or old hippie - hippie is a state of mind, it knows no age. Our youngest group member is 4 - at that age you are as free a spirit as you will ever be = hippie.

If you enjoy people watching (hippie or not) then you would like Phish.

I know plenty of those "I was a hippie in the 60's" people - interesting to see where they are now. Sad to see some got eaten by the machine. It don't come easy, ya know it don't come easy - no one said being a hippie was easy...Keep On Truckin'

If being a nurse for 30 years is getting "eaten by the machine", I guess I qualify.

Security dude

"Old Fat Guy", you clearly don't understand the concept of security. It is largely a preemptive measure. You implement it as a means of preventing something from happening - like preventing a terrorist from taking action agianst you. If you owned a home security system, you wouldn't get rid of it on the grounds that it never caught a thief. You own it and put a sign outside saying "This home protected by ADT" or whatever company, that way a thief knows that security measure is there, and decides it is a better idea not to take action.

People easily dismiss security as ineffective because there are no tangible results when security works well. Then, once something catastrophic happens, such as September 11th, people are suddenly outraged that security isn't strong enough.

Except for one thing, TSA isn't securing us at all, the only terrorist attempts that have actually been stopped since 9/11 have been on the plane, or else by actual law enforcement catching them while plotting an activity. Remember the shoe bomber guy? Yup, TSA missed that one!

Remember 9/11? Guess not.

Remember 9/11? Guess not.

Let's all remember 9/11. Terrorists got on board with box cutters. I could get on board with a box cutter today. I've done so accidentally in the past despite the post-9/11 screening. Furthermore, they were able to invade the cockpit since there were no locks, despite repeated recommendations for locked cockpit doors by the FDA- the airlines didn't want the additional weight. So, not we have locked cockpit doors. So, 9/11 is taken care of, in the air. The ground security has been shown by multiple studies to be no safer than pre-9/11 security run by the airlines, so why are we being molested?

Remember 9/11? Guess not.

Are you referring to an incident that occured 10 years ago?

Remember Pearl Harbor? I think we also punished American citizens for that one also.

Apples

despite repeated recommendations for locked cockpit doors by the FDA

Small correction there, I think you mean the FAA(Federal Aviation Administration) not the FDA, lol

Your opinion, fine.

I believe that the terrorists have not gone on holiday, nor are they sleeping. Our counter measures have deterred another 9/11 type incident.

10 years later and not another successful attack is good.

Small correction there, I think you mean the FAA(Federal Aviation Administration) not the FDA, lol

LOL. Yes. I sliced my finger open on Friday and typing is a real pain in the butt! Maybe the FDA should get involved though. People seem to think these terrorists are going to eat through the door, we need to make sure it's not toxic! ;p

People seem to think these terrorists are going to eat through the door, we need to make sure it's not toxic! ;p

Is that what you really mean? Better that the door is toxic, no?

Did that slice cause septicemia?

Our counter measures have deterred another 9/11 type incident.

I don't buy that one for a minute. Theres stories aplenty about TSA failing to catch this or that. What about the guy from Nigeria(I think it was, could be wrong about where he was from), that was boarding planes using expired passes in someone else's names, or the taser that was found in the seat pocket on a plane. If the terrorists planned it carefully, they could do it again. The only reason they haven't is because they realize that our people nowadays won't let them get away with it on a plane, they'll fight back! I have a strong feeling that IF there is another terrorist attack to come on US soil it will not involve aircraft, but most likely will involve a dirty bomb.

But i'm also not naive enough to even believe the next attack will be against the US, it will probably come in Europe somewhere, or possibly Canada or even South America.

If the terrorists planned it carefully, they could do it again

That's the only coherent statement you've made.

Better that the door is toxic, no?

No, cause then they'd likely sue us! hehe How dare we make a door toxic that they might touch while committing a felony!!

Deleted. NV connection error....!

Deleted. NV connection error....

Deleted. NV connection error....

I believe that the terrorists have not gone on holiday, nor are they sleeping. Our counter measures have deterred another 9/11 type incident.

10 years later and not another successful attack is good.

And what about 30+ years without a terrorist airline incident on US soil pre-TSA? It sounds like we were doing pretty good prior to the noody scanners, child molestations, and diaper removers we have today. In fact, the 9/11 hijackers were able to accomplish their goal with box cutters. TSA has failed to detect shoe bombs, tazers, and handguns repeatedly, so what prompts you to believe that the security today is any better or effective than it was on 9/11?

1974-TWA flt 841- international bombing

1976- TWA hijacking- international

1979- AA flt 444 Unibomber bomb fails to detonate

1982- Pan Am flt 840- International

Apples and Oranges:

And what about 30+ years without a terrorist airline incident on US soil pre-TSA?

What about it? What about the fact that 2 million years ago, dinosaurs walked on the earth and there were no terrorist bombings. Let's go back to before the Quaternary period where there was no terrorists.

How about we deal with the reality of today, post 9/11.

How about we deal with the reality of today, post 9/11.

Exactly. The reality of today is despite the invasive and unconstitutional behavior of the TSA, we are no more safe than pre-9/11. The same items that were used to take over planes then still make it onto planes now. In fact, the only successful thing the TSA has done is boost the US economy through useless screening technology purchases. A metal detector, dogs, and a professionally trained screener who through behavioral profiling can identify a terrorist.

Apples Oranges and Bananas,

The reality of today is despite the invasive and unconstitutional behavior of the TSA, we are no more safe than pre-9/11.

Not true. It is safer to fly. The likelihood of a similar type attack on board an aircraft is much less. The likelihood of another terrorist attack remains. How is anyones guess. I hope that that guess is based on intelligence gathering and hypothesis.

They have not let up, they have not surrendered nor attempted to negotiate.

The likelihood of a similar type attack on board an aircraft is much less.

This is true, but the reason for this has nothing to do with the TSA groping us, the real reason is because now, other passengers aren't going to sit their twiddling their thumbs while the terrorists try to take control of the plane. Instead, they're going to throw caution to the wind and jump the terrorists before any damage can be done.

They have not let up, they have not surrendered nor attempted to negotiate

And they never will. There has always been terrorism and there always will be. We cannot defer terrorism by abusing our own citizens. That encourages terrorism. They win every time.

AhhCrap:

Absolutely correct, except they are not winning. Americans will develop sophisticated and seemingly less intrusive technologies to screen passengers and secure flying and other vulnerable public transportation methods.

We're getting there.

Prohibition: You're in a holding pattern with your logic.

The outrage over these perverse TSA actions continues and it seems in an attempt to quell this outrage, the TSA thugs have adopted a strategy of jailing anyone that might object. They want all the people to meekly submit to their vile intrusions.

TSA.. a perverts dream job.

Wet Willy:

TSA.. a perverts dream job

What a conclusion! Beyond insulting and intelligent.

Is your doctor a pervert, too?

Please demonstrate that you have common sense. I doubt any TSA agent gains any sexual gratifications whatsoever. The screening process is routine and makes for a long boring day, especially since two thirds of Americans are obese.

The following video indicates that the two thirds of obese Americans were all hired by the TSA to harrass the general public.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XhnZlmLGK8

JM California 1.62

You defend the indefensible. I would be embarrassed to be employed by such an organization for the purpose of fondling genetialia.

What insight you display. Is this perhaps how you earn your living?

BTW, there have been several accounts of TSA employees ogling and retaining scanner images. This behaviour no doubt extends to those intrusive gropings as well.

Wet Willy:

You defend the indefensible

Constantly attacking other American citizens for having a difficult job and suggesting elimination of the TSA will leave us indefensible from terrorism.

I would be embarrassed to be employed by such an organization for the purpose of fondling genetialia [sic.].

Was it the TSA who put a bomb in a terrorist's underwear? It would be foolhardy for the TSA not react to this threat. The terrorists failed in their initial attempt to destroy the World Trade Center. It didn't deter them from trying again. What makes you think they aren't still trying to wreak havoc? What intelligence source or basic logic do you refer to that convinces you that the threat is gone?

This is from the TSA website:

We are your neighbors, friends and relatives. We are 50,000 security officers, inspectors, directors, air marshals and managers who protect the nation's transportation systems so you and your family can travel safely. We look for bombs at checkpoints in airports, we inspect rail cars, we patrol subways with our law enforcement partners, and we work to make all modes of transportation safe.

You call them the enemy? Think solutions, not unfair criticisms, if you can.

JM California 1.65

You do realize the underwear bomber got on the plane in Europe, Amsterdam, to be specific, don't you? Even the TSA gropers don't have fingers that long.

I can do without them quite nicely. They have never encountered a terrorist and they never will, and I hope they know where they can stick that BS statement about keeping me safe.

Didn't answer my questions. You are stuck in an intellectual rut and can only criticize, giving zero solutions.

Keep your day job and leave this nation's security to the professionals.

Come on JM, criticizing and giving zero solutions? This TSA groping program was a solution looking for a problem, and a highly offensive solution for many. Our previous procedures put in place after 9/11 were perfectly adequate as evidenced by no terrorist incidents from US airports.

We have provided a vetted and reliable solution many times- behavioral profiling and dogs. You don't need to molest children and grandmas to feel safe. In fact, the molestation techniques are questionable considering terrorists can easily hide from patdowns and noody scanners by inserting items directly into their bodies or cavities.

Wet Willy:

Our previous procedures put in place, post 9/11, were possibly adequate, not perfectly adequate, security procedures. If they were perfectly adequate, the underwear bomber may have been detected.

You speak like you have a crystal ball. We will never know when, where or how the next attack will occur. Terrorists are funded and are very capable of planning any attack and we must be smarter to deter them. No one knows for sure. We can only gather intelligence, use our brains and react to new threats. 100% screening success is likely very difficult, if not impossible. Simply because 100% certainty is likely unrealistic, does not mean we should cease any security enhancements prior to the under bomber.

You are suggesting that we do not react to new threats but give no reasonable alternatives.

Apples, you're turning into baked cobbler. I don't want to talk about the constitutional issues; a ruling has already ended that debate. Common sense has prevailed.

What is "behavioral profiling"? Would that have detected the underwear bomber?

Do you have any clue what an expense and logistical nightmare it would be to have thousands of dogs? Worse, they need a handler, they lose attention, make errors and are not as reliable as your wishful thinking would lead you to believe.

Correction:

Simply because 100% certainty is likely unrealistic, does not mean we should cease any security enhancements after to the under bomber.

My apologies.

JM, we can debate this ad nauseum without swaying one another. My position is that I will not submit to unconstitutional and offensive intrusions for the illusion of increased safety, while your position is most
likely that there is no limit to what can be done or implemented if they tell you it’s for increasing your safety.

Yes, I still see these so-called safety intrusions as unconstitutional despite the courts ruling. If you examined the courts conclusion you would have seen that they too had reservations about this but since these offensive practices were already implemented, they felt that they could do nothing but reluctantly rule in their favor.

All this highly offensive and patently intrusive nonsense could be avoided by employing behavioral profiling, as you mentioned, but that doesn’t set well with the politically correct bunch despite it being successfully employed by the Israelis for years. In other words, the Israelis don’t assault their passengers, just the terrorists.

Wet Willy: Thank you

By expressing your views, rationally, a rational discussion is possible.

There have been times, in this country, when our precious constitutional rights have been suspended or modified. Until we have a peaceful agreement with these terrorists, I am OK with current TSA procedures.

Israel is a model of success. But it is a fraction of the size and population of the USA. Americans want to go thru security lines quickly and have assurance that whatever screening is done is fair, appropriate and effective. The last time I flew, I was impressed by how fast the lines of people moved along. Adopting Israeli screening methods may infuriate Americans, as Israeli screening/profiling procedures require more time.

TSA = T!t Squeezing A$$holes

Let this be a lesson to all flyers, keep your mouths shut, bend over, and take it like the good paranoid Americans you are. Feel safer yet?

Those who give up freedom for security have neither. We're there now!

They have to keep the public riled up and scared or their B.S won't work!

Sarge, didn't you take an oath to uphold the Constitution, to "protect from enemies both foreign and domestic"?

Those TSA deviants sure get upset when you spoil their fun at work!

The TSA response to the pat-down of the 4-year-old (not the 6-year-old) on YouTube was to propose "rules" that make it a felony to photograph any TSA security procedure as a risk to national security.

That way if you catch them in pedophilia, you are a terrorist and will go to jail. I have seen the pat downs of people who obviously posed no threat and the "protocol" on the TSA web site requires "special attention to the breast and groin areas."

People need to STOP putting up with this crap. The TSA has spent billions of tax dollars on something the taxpayer does not want. Fire them all.

I live not far from the outfit, Unclaimed Luggage, that buys all the "lost" luggage from airlines, buses, cruise ships, etc. Several of the managers have told me that since the TSA took over, the amount of baggage "lost" has gone up, but the valuables that used to be found in them has virtually dried up and so many suitcases have been "slit-entered" that they seldom have suitcases to sell.

The way the Unclaimed Luggage folks explained it to me is: A TSA agent screens the luggage. When he sees anything valuable from an expensive perfume (they know the shapes of the bottles) to a camera or a laptop or even a gun or cash they mark the location with a piece of chalk. They showed me one that had been marked with a "C". The mark is next to where the item is located and indicates that a camera would have been there. The suitcase is then slit open with a box cutter by another TSA agent or by a airline or airport baggage handler. The item is removed and the person removing it removes the baggage tag and substitutes one for an airport with infrequent service and no baggage office. Hickory, NC is one favorite. The looted bag then goes to that airport where it can set for weeks before being "handled" and sent to Unclaimed Luggage. The airline makes a small profit from selling the "lost" bags (the difference between what they pay the passenger and what they sell it for) so they have no incentive to stop the thefts. The TSA fires the people if they catch them (over 7,000 so far) but never prosecutes them because they contend that it undermines the public's faith in the TSA to make it general knowledge that numerous thefts are taking place under their aegis.

The TSA steals in other was as well. For example, many people wonder where the pocket knives that are confiscated go. The TSA says they donate them to the Boy Scouts. The Boy Scouts vehemently and unconditionally denies this. But if you go on eBay and search "tsa lot knives" you will see that TSA employees sell the items on eBay in carefully sorted lots. They are actually stealing items from passengers and selling them for their own personal gain on eBay where anyone can see it! That isn't just theft, it is arrogance and hubris beyond belief.

The TSA also contends that the scanners only produce grainy images that could never be used to pick out the details of a person's anatomy. This is also a lie. The grainy images they show would never allow them to detect anything, let alone catch someone like the "Underwear Bomber." The real images show enough detail to tell if a man is circumsized or if a woman has puffy nipples. Every detail of labial lips, nipples, penis, testes, and even whether the person has hemorrhoids is clearly visible. The TSA also says that the machines are not capable of storing images. But if you read everything, you find references to the ability to store "selected" images for "training purposes." Another lie that can be demonstrated right off the TSA web site.

The TSA does NOT conduct thorough background investigations on every employee as they state. What they do is called a "35-day National Agency Check." This is a quick check of the places listed on the person's application where they say they lived in the past 5 years. Only felony convictions that have been forwarded to the NCIC are actually checked. This is less than 10% of all convictions. And they take the person's word for where they lived. So if they did a crime in Phoenix and say they lived in Nashville, only Nashville is checked. Even with this quick and dirty "short form" check, around 18% of applicants are disallowed because of criminal convictions. There is no check to see if someone is a homosexual before setting them to check people nor is there any specific check for pedophilia.

The TSA keeps lists of people. People who submit written complaints. People who (like me) have medical implants. People who have been anonymously accused of crimes. And people who just didn't look "right" to the TSA. These people are treated as terrorists without appeal or any means to have their name removed from these lists. The lists are secret, so you can't even see it to challenge it. (I had mine shown to me by Delta employees at Heathrow about 3 weeks ago.

The TSA needs to be abandoned before it does even more harm than it has. The TSA are terrorists in fact, while these elaborate "potential threats" are nothing but speculation.

America - land of the free!*

* Some restrictions apply

@ Road Rash: More like, land of the idiots who get complacent 10 years after planes were used as weapons of mass destruction.

Hi Vince. I've tried for maybe a year now to get a straight answer from one of you law-and-order types on this issue:

In terms of violating passenger privacy where do you draw the line? And what is your criteria for drawing that line? Is theoretical "passenger safety" the sole criteria? If it is then why don't we have mandatory cavity searches, since any sophisticated terrorist intent on blowing up a plane will probably store the explosives such that they can't be detected by a mere "freedom fondle". A bathroom stall would be a good place to assemble some naughty device from innocuous-appearing components stashed in a camera or laptop bag, so why don't we remove the stall walls/doors and put cameras in the airport bathrooms? Why stop there? Why not random, unannounced searches of homes and cars? I'm sure we'd net quite a haul if we started that.

Answer the questions, and be specific, please.

Yell, scream obscenities at, and refuse to comply with the cop who pulls you over and wants to do a field sobriety test on you and see how far that gets you and how much sympathy you get from people. I saw a picture of this mother. I got news for you, lady. No one wants to see you naked, either. Just go through the damn scanner and be on your way!

Flying most certainly is NOT a privilege - it is a business arrangement between me and the airline, and as such IS a right, inasmuch as I have the right to do business, and inasmuch as I have paid the airline for a seat. And as such, it is none of government's business, as are all business arrangements between individuals and private companies.

Formersgt..

unfortunatly an dregrettably, if and when terrorists strike again, we will not say it happened because we didnt do a good enough job screening... we will say that we wasted all that time, money and resources fighting agains tsomething that cant be beat...

no matter if they screened every single passenger, a good terrorist will find another weak spot in the line of defense... they will sneak it in some other way... or they will buy off a tsa agent or a pilot of a flight attendant or a mechanic or a plane builder who planted something inside a cushion or inside a wall panel, or something

why spend bazillions and inconvenience millions and take up time and manpower fighting something that cant be beat using traditional methods...

but when folks / TSA agents cant follow 'common sense' and make a determiniation as to who they think is and or isnt a high probablility target then we are lost...

a woman wearing skin tight clothing doesnt need to be patted down.. where the hell will she stick it? and if she did, it wont be 'felt', unless they go further then they do now...

if you screen a family of four, and choose to not screen one out of the four then probability can work on your favor...

and again, it isnt a matter of liability, we arent going to sue someone for not patting down the baby or making the baby remove the diaper to get a better looksee...

and if they bomb a food store next time will we be felt up when we shop for food? how about buying gas? or post office, or work, or sporting events, or school, or buses... or trains....

where will this stop, and how much money do we have for this but not for education or legal system...

in a more perfect world if we had the money then yea, maybe, but right now we are cutting out pensions and benefits for folks who have paid thier fair share and premiums only to let them starve and or get kicked out of thier homes

No soup for you!

Wow. So many getting hostile because she didn't quietly do as she was told and allow her child to be groped. As for yelling at a cop that pulls you over = not a good comparison, as these people aren't cops. And I wouldn't let a cop grope my child looking for drugs/weapons/whatever, either. I don't allow that. They (the TSA agents) are security personnel, only. I don't fly, but if I did and someone touched my child like that, I'd make them famous. And see what the jury had to say about my actions. What good does it do to treat US citizens like this? A simple .22 rifle bullet, fired from the ground, placed accurately (and w/ a bit of luck) can bring down any passenger plane ...so the feeling of security is false. So, instead of telling people that if they don't like it, not to fly, how about we just turn it around so that we don't have to adjust to YOUR paranoia: "If flying w/out these excessive "security" measures makes you too fearful to fly, then take a bus". After all, why should I sacrifice my freedom to move freely about this country of mine in any fashion I choose, merely because you're scared of a mere possibility? So, 'FormerMarine-whatever', I just answered your statement, on if anyone had a better solution, and I WON'T "stfu" in my own country.

Former Sgt.

1. First of all at least two dirtbags (underwear and shoes) have gotten through and multiple lapses in security procedures by TSA happen everyday.

2. No, when the next terrorist attack happens I won't say the government didn't do its job because I think they will have, at least to the best of their ability. The shear law of averages would indicate that given enough time, someone will successfully get something through. I also don't think its the government's job to keep me safe from every harm. I choose to fly and I take my chances. And I fly cross country several times a month, so I'm pretty close to the problem.

3. Several approaches - psychological profiling for one - have been shown to be more effective than what we are doing.

4. I don't actually mind the TSA searches. I don't enjoy them but I normally don't mind them either. What I mind is the mindset of the public that we should all meekly accept whatever the government says is in our best interest. That approach is antithetical to the very foundation of a free society. What I do mind is TSA laziness, ineptness and inefficiency.

5. There is absolutely no evidence to date that terrorists think its feasible to plant bombs on 94 year old grandmothers or in the diapers of infants. It is exactly this sort of, we-must-protect-against-every-possibility, nonsense thinking that leads to governmental excess and wasted resources.

Well said, Joe/Mike

Hey sgt, if you are afraid to fly without being patted down, why don't YOU TAKE the bus?

I'm willing to bet human error brings down more planes over the next 10 years than terrorists would have without the TSA. But it must be working, how else do you explain the dramatic decrease in terrorist attacks on and using planes in the US since the formation of the TSA?

Agreed JoeMike. Hey, here's a thought; how about studying the Israeli system of airline screening? It seems less invasive, less inconvenient and at lease as effective (if not more so).

Bin Laden won. He instilled fear that resulted in the wastage of billions of dollars, and created a virtual police state where a Constitutional Democracy once existed.

All this for a old deviant with porn in his home, living with various wives, hidden out by a two faced ally.

Hey Sarge...how about my son-in-law getting pulled aside last year for a "special screening" while on his way home from a year in Iraq...while dressed in his BDUs and carrying a valid military ID? This guy just spent a year fighting for his country (2nd tour, BTW) and he gets treated like a terrorist? There is something VERY wrong with that!

Vince says, "Air travel is a PRIVILEGE not a right."

Wow, thanks Vince I didn't know that. I was under the obviously false impression that air travel was a contract between myself and an airline for transportation. How very nice of the airlines to be nice enough to carry my person from one point to another and they only charged me a small fee for this wonderful privilege.

Besides being able to enter into contracts with air carriers, are there any other things I think are things I am allowed to do as a free citizen that are actually privileges granted to me by the powers that be? Like walking down the street or free speech or breathing?

Now, I wonder if anyone would say something if they stopped the security and a terrorist Blew up some Americans, I bet they would be screaming bloody murder, what I've learned is it's OK if it's not happening to me, like pulling over someone because their not White but if they did that to a White person they don't like it suck it up it ain't that big a deal or don't fly ....

Read the contract, abide by it; or don't fly. Really easy.

@ Scar-414733, BIN LADENS DEAD !!!!!

FormerMarineSgt

Gee I'll bet every one of you ever so smart monday morning quarterbacks will be screaming that they didn't do the checks the moment some dirtbag gets through with a bomb. You 'righteous freedoms seekers' will be the first ones screaming about how the guv'ment men screwed up and how the guv'ment men didn't do thier jobs.

Yup. It's soo easy to second guess and demonize when you're nowhere near the problem.

Excessive searches are always wrong - however it's easy to hide weapons / bombs on the least suspected people in a crowd. It takes no brains whatsoever to do that.

Most of these 'excessive' searches could be avoided if the righteously enraged morons would just go through the scanner.

I don't like the TSA searches at all - but until we have a BETTER alternative, it's what we have.

Any of you got an actual, realistic and BETTER way to do it? Put your cards on the table or STFU.

We do have a better way moron, it's called profiling. Ask the Israelis, it works.

I am also an inactive Marine Sergeant (sure as hell not former) Vietnam 69-71. And you "former' Marine Sergeant want a better way? Alright, how about the way the Israeli's do it. No terrorists get on their flights. Why? Well, they have told us why over and over again and we won't listen. They do NOT look for weapons. They look for TERRORISTS. We let people who are highly suspect, i.e. women in burkhas, pass right by security because we are afraid of being accused of racisim and profiling. We are not one bit safer because someone grabbed a six year olds crotch. If we won't profile, we are doomed to repeat 911. It's the purpose of profiling you know. And watch your language "former" Marine. There are women and possibly children reading this. Above all, honor. Semper Fi.

There have been so many well publicized breaches in security that one really has to question the value of having the TSA at all. When someone without a valid ID or valid boarding pass can get through security and onto a plane, you really have to ask yourself if all this nonsense is doing anything at all to protect us. Yes, they did catch him, halfway through the flight when a flight attendant realized that there was not supposed to be anyone in the seat he was occupying. A lot of good that would have done if this person had been out to commit an act of terrorism. The TSA proved that they are totally inept. They failed on two accounts. First, they are supposed to verify that the person has a valid picture ID - this person did not. He used an out dated ID with someone else's picture that did not really look like him at all and had someone else's name. Second, he used a boarding pass with yet another persons name that was for a flight a week before. The TSA is supposed to match the name on the boarding pass to the name on the ID - obviously they failed to do this as well. In another incident, they found a stun gun on board an aircraft.

These incidents, as well as many others I have not mentioned, really go to demonstrate how completely ineffective the TSA is at protecting us. This is in large part do to the attitude and competence of the people they are hiring to do the job. Most of these people are just going through the motions so they can collect their paycheck. Other than the ones on a power trip who get their jollies hassling people, they could care less about actually doing their job and are only interested in putting in their hours doing as little as possible and collecting their check.

This isn't going to get better any time soon. Face is, since 9/11 things have been getting worse all the time. Life here before 9/11 won't return. Government control is now an epidemic and we haven't seen anything yet.

All of you people who are against the TSA are idiots. You're probably the very same people who supported George W. and the implementation of the Patriot Act. And, in case you didn't know, he was also the man that helped create the Dept. of Homeland Security which presides over the TSA. Unless you've actually worked for the TSA and have gone through their training, you have NO IDEA what they know or do. All you have to go on is hearsay and the reports of a few isolated incidents that have been, most likely, sensationalized in order to further someone else's agenda--as the "news" often does. Yes, mistakes are made and there are some bad employees in EVERY organization/company so why be so critical about the TSA? Out of all of the millions of people that fly every day throughout the year(s), I think that these few incidents show just how effective the TSA is. I understand that people often think of 9/11 when it comes to terrorism, but there were MANY incidences of terrorism involving air travel prior to that. Does anyone remember Lockerbie? How about just regular hijackings? Are those such ancient history already? Here's another shocker for you people: there are more psychos than just bin Laden in the world. Just because he's "dead" doesn't mean that someone else doesn't want to be even bigger than he was. I've heard the saying that ignorance is bliss but, in the case of many of you and your comments here, it's just stupid. America's biggest concern shouldn't be terrorists, it should be jackasses like you.

IED1: You missed the past tense?? Impressive.

If people are so up-tight about pat-downs, just get a screening.

And besides, the terrorists have used 6 year old children as suicide bombers for christ's sake! It is understandable why they have to screen anyone. They will do anything to get what ever weapon on board, and we need to anything to stop them.

To former Marine...why don't they use more dogs to patrol and check out passengers?? They are EXPERTS at picking up on a scent for bomb material etc....so to me, this IS a far better way to screen passengers rather than groping and selling secret videos from the scanners...and stealing items from checked luggage...

I guess most of you that are for TSA airport screenings are against the Constitution? Straight off the Homeland security page.

Homeland Security -

As Federal civil servants, we take an oath of office by which we swear to support and defend the Constitution of the United States of America. The Constitution not only establishes our system of government, it actually defines the work role for Federal employees - "to establish Justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty."

The history of the Oath for Federal employees can be traced to the Constitution, where Article II includes the specific oath the President takes - to "preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States." Article VI requires an oath by all other government officials from all three branches, the military, and the States. It simply states that they "shall be bound by oath of affirmation to support the Constitution." The very first law passed by the very first Congress implemented Article VI by setting out this simple oath in law: "I do solemnly swear or affirm (as the case may be) that I will support the Constitution of the United States."

The second part addresses future performance, that is, what you swear to do in the future. It established a clear, publicly sworn accountability; “I, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God”.

"support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic" is on there at least twice and definately in their Oath, so I guess they are not clear on what the Constitution of the United States says.

For the "former" military guy here are copies of both the enlisted Oath and Officers, plese notice when you read it that the US Constitution is defended BEFORE anything else or any other order is followed, POTUS, Officers, etc: The Oath of Office (for officers): "I, ____— (SSAN), having been appointed an officer in the Army of the United States, as indicated above in the grade of ____— do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign or domestic, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservations or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office upon which I am about to enter; So help me God."

The Oath of Enlistment (for enlistees): "I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

That is because the Constitution defines our government, our nation, our freedoms and doing anything to weaken it, destroy it is a part of "defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic". This type of stuff, along with the Patriot Act (where people can be held without representation for 10 years for a possibility that they MIGHT do a crime) and that a huge part of it is classified "Secret" (A law that is secret????) qualifies as "domestic".

Knine, you have but one thing left to do. Protect my right against illegal search. Oooops! When I walk through that line and you grab my everything and I have done NOTHING to instigate that it is called "illegal search". Missed that part of the Constitution did you?

Also, the Airlines receive public money (read "tax dollars") and do not have the right to refuse us flight without a Constitutionally valid reason.

Damn, misread your post KNINE. Forgive, please. Just missed one word, but it was crucial. And I can't remove my first post. Very sorry.

Lest we forget, the events of 9/11 could have been prevented if the airlines had not made the economic decision to refuse installation of hardened cockpit doors. Something our friends in Israel accomplished in the 70's? Within a short period of time the doors were installed and will prevent another event where a plane will be used as a guided missile. Prior to 9/11 there were numerous bombings of airplanes but we didn't get confused and misguided by our government. Remember that we are still looking for bombs and using 9/11 as the premise but they didn't use bombs - huh???

The shoe and underwear bombers can not be used as examples of TSA successes due to the fact that both were in position to accomplish what they set out to do and were unsuccessful due to their own incompetence!

Rikkio, didn't miss that part. It is a part of the Bill of Rights which is what The first ten Amendments collectively are called.

BTW, I like your posts!

Thanks for that information Frank, I didn't know that and do appreciate you telling us that.

nless you've actually worked for the TSA and have gone through their training, you have NO IDEA what they know or do. All you have to go on is hearsay and the reports of a few isolated incidents that have been, most likely, sensationalized in order to further someone else's agenda--as the "news" often does. Yes, mistakes are made and there are some bad employees in EVERY organization/company so why be so critical about the TSA?

Actually, we know how useless the TSA to the tune of more than 25,000 security breaches since they started in Nov 2001. That's over 7 a DAY, and that just what was DOCUMENTED. What about all of the breaches they never even knew about. Saying that there are some bad employees really underestimates what's going on here at the most incompetent organization ever created.

Israeli bus drivers have stopped more terrorists than the TSA could ever dream. Terrorists are just going to hide bombs in their rectum where the scanners can't see anyway. The only way to advance safety at the airport is the profile. Profiling is not about skin color, it's about BEHAVIOR. You're right, when the next bomb goes off I will be pissed, because it was missed by the TSA, like they miss everything else while busily molesting 4 year olds and removing grandma's diapers.

Care to substantiate that hyped up 25K statistic, "Apples"? Reference? Nahhhh - - didn't think so, daydreamer.

Care to substantiate that hyped up 25K statistic, "Apples"? Reference? Nahhhh - - didn't think so, daydreamer.

Certainly! I have no problem substantiating my claims, can you say the same?

http://travel.usatoday.com/flights/story/2011/07/Airport-security-breaches-since-2001-raise-alarms/49326312/1

More than 25,000 security breaches — an average of about seven per day — have occurred at U.S. airports since November 2001, according to newly released Department of Homeland Security documents.

Although the flimsy USA Today periodical reference is appreciated, Apples - - I was looking for an authentic reference.. not a reference to a reference. You see, I'm not particularly interested in hearing a parrot mimic another parrot. So, is there an actual DHS statistic compilation that reflects that 25K? Thanks in advance.

Well, Apples - - despite my best efforts over the past few minutes, I am unable to track the ORIGINAL reference documentation to that 25K claim you quoted. It would seem that the general consensus among the press is that there are approximately five "breaches" a year dispersed over 457 commercial airports in this country. While it is true that anything more than zero is unacceptable, what we don't know (for the sake of sound-bite sensationalism) is specifically what constitutes a breach, in what context they typically (or atypically) occur, and what remediation or other preventative measures result. The 25K statistic seems epic to me, and if proven to be accurate in the truest sense of "breaching" or "lapsing" security protocol - - perhaps condemning those who risk their lives to protect yours may not necessarily be the answer.

Well, Apples - - despite my best efforts over the past few minutes, I am unable to track the ORIGINAL reference documentation to that 25K claim you quoted.

The US Today used documents released by the Department of Homeland Security for the upcoming congressional hearings tomorrow. It is THEIR analysis!! HLS spokesman confirmed it. You can choose to believe whatever you like, but your objectives are pretty questionable when you refuse to acknowledge evidence presented by the very organization you're defending. I mean these are 25,000+ breaches they are admitting to, imagine how many there really are!!

The documents, obtained in advance by USA TODAY, were submitted to a House subcommittee on homeland security Wednesday.

"It's clear the airports are not secure," says Rep. Jason Chaffetz, R-Utah, chairman of the House Subcommittee on National Security, Homeland Defense and Foreign Operations. "For all the money, time and persistence we have thrown at airport security, it's a real mess."

Transportation Security Administration spokesman Nicholas Kimball said the breaches represent a tiny fraction of 1% of the air travelers who used U.S. airports in the past decade. The term "breach" is broadly defined and can mean accidental violations that pose no real danger to the public, he said.

Documents being introduced at Wednesday's subcommittee hearing also show:

•6,000 security breaches in which Transportation Security Administration screeners failed to screen, or improperly screened, a passenger or a passenger's carry-on items.

•2,616 security breaches involving an individual gaining unauthorized access to the "sterile area" at screening checkpoints or an exit lane without submitting to all screening procedures and inspections.

•1,026 incidents when someone gained unauthorized access to a sterile area but was "contained" or "constantly monitored" by airport or security personnel until apprehended.

•1,318 incidents in which someone gained unauthorized access from airport perimeters to aircraft operations or security identification display areas and was under constant surveillance until apprehended.

BTW: 5 minutes on google actually yielded the C-SPAN footage. I guess you don't believe that either? At 4:00 min he mentions the actual 25,000+ breaches, but I guess testifying before Congress isn't like real testifying... right?

Here is today's entire sub-committee meeting. Listen and weep.....

http://www.c-span.org/Events/Lawmakers-Examine-Airport-Perimeter-Security/10737422844-1/

It's not whether or not I "believe" the claim, Apples. Rather, I appreciate factual data - - which is why I asked for the source document reference. I am particularly interested in "what", "when" and "where" aspect, since the rest ("who, "why") is just finger-pointing hype. Although it would be far easier to hop on the "blame TSA" wagon, I prefer to sort through the statistical facts, and draw my own conclusions rather than wait to be fed bananas from my keeper like some monkey at the zoo. Thank you for the C-SPAN footage link. As luck would have it, I had already happened upon it in my search for the DHS or IG statical report last night - - and found it vaguely interesting. About as interesting as the rest of these barkers making snide comments about federal officers risking their lives every time they pat someone down, or search a bag, stroller, or wheelchair, etc - - in return for scorn and ridicule from the very people they are protecting. Make no mistake, I too am frusterated with this situation, but unlike most of us - - I seek my remedy in collecting and studying the actual facts and perhaps solving the problem, rather than complaining about it infinitum from the sidelines.

no such thing as 'factual data'... facts are presumed by the listener.. so you either believe a judge if he claims them to be fact or jurys if they claim it to be fact but until that, then they are just evidence ....

in the case of casey anthony, the evidence was presumed to be inadequate to find her guilty but the readers and listeners to the testimony disputed that as well...

Good point, jtc - - but generally speaking, there are source documents available to the public if you dig deep enough. I don't doubt there are anomalies in the system - - but strictly out of curiousity, I am looking for the actual Inspector General report detailing the "big picture" (however grim) of these security "breaches", rather than just selective statistics presented to the public merely to incite (more) rage and frustration. I fly (far too) frequently in my line of work to deny there are obvious shortcomings with the way passengers and their belongings are screened, but I am interested in a viable solution - - which can only be gained by thoroughly researching the matter at hand in an unbiased manner. It just seems far too easy to blame TSA screeners for following current agency protocol than to properly research and perhaps suggest a more effective protocol be implemented.

I am particularly interested in "what", "when" and "where" aspect, since the rest ("who, "why") is just finger-pointing hype.

The TSA specifically addressed this point in the article stating that government policy is NOT to list where these incidents occurred since that could be a safety risk. You can't just pick and choose data tiderider. The source though seems accurate since it's from the horse's mouth. This isn't USA Today uncovered documents, these are documents released by the TSA which they verify in both the senate hearings, which I provided, and in a quote within the article. I understand that you don't like the idea of being wrong, but that's life!

I fly (far too) frequently in my line of work to deny there are obvious shortcomings with the way passengers and their belongings are screened, but I am interested in a viable solution - - which can only be gained by thoroughly researching the matter at hand in an unbiased manner. It just seems far too easy to blame TSA screeners for following current agency protocol than to properly research and perhaps suggest a more effective protocol be implemented.

I fly over 250k miles a year worldwide, so I'm well aware of security procedures at airports around the world and we are lacking in any real security. Frankly there exists more effective and less invasive means to catch terrorists. The Israelis have been doing it for DECADES. Do you think our airports are under greater threat than Israel's?! Do you HONESTLY think we're safer than they are? Behavioral profiling saves lives, unlike our perverted system, and no one has to digitally strip down to their skivvies either!

The reason I think the government doesn't institute behavioral profiling is simple--- the current apes that work for the TSA are too stupid to actually learn how to do complex tasks. They've hired unskilled, minimum wage perverts and you get what you pay for. [^] [^] the TSA.

You know we’ve got the TSA in the USA airport's searching ppl; I guess they are making it "safe" to flight FROM the USA to other parts of the world, what about ppl flying from other countries TO the USA? - If terrorists want to blow this country up they could very well embark from somewhere else, I don't believe every country has a TSA searching boobs and private parts looking for bombs.

Even though the debate is interesting between you two, we already have a competitive banter between the President and the Speaker which has proven to be useless.

So for the sake if identification one of you play Matlock and the other Perry Mason.

Ready, Banter!

You numb nut. The TSA is full of people doing what they are told to do.

Get a clue please, or leave the conversation to adults!

They're told to molest kids and old ladies you say?............nice calling people names for pointing this out Mikeo

I've been fortunate enough to travel all across the country recently. I have been the target of several TSA patdowns. NOT ONCE did they ever grab a handful of my "junk". It was simply: pat down both legs, arms out, sides, front and back.

People are blowing this whole thing way out of proportion...

Sorry, but I have to agree with @surfer. There are a disproportionate number of petty thieves, and people with a criminal background in the TSA. This is what you will get with any unskilled labor minimum-wage job. The TSA has fired over 7,000 for theft alone (and prosecuted TWO!) And if you don't think a terrorist couldn't bribe any one of these people taking home a whole $6 an hour, you are sniffing something addictive.

Well take a look at the job description that these people fulfill. They are told to physically molest children (not specifically in those words) and all other adults that refuse to go through an invasive scanning process. Now, I believe that no person in their right mind, with a decent set of values and even the slightest amount of dignity would willingly apply for that position to pat down people in that manner. Granted there are a few noble souls out there who actually believe they are doing a good service and keep their groping to a minimum, but surely there is a majority of creeps that willingly fill the position to inappropriately touch other people. There are millions of sick people out there that would jump at the oppurtunity to grope children and old people. Now just imagine how many of those slipped under the radar and are legally touching these kids because it's 'what they are told to do.' Just because the government says it's okay, doesn't make it right!

Chris,

Not that I don't believe you, but do you have a link to share regarding the 7000 fired workers for theft?

Profile the members of the group that is trying to kill us. We all know the name of that group - it starts with the letter "M" and ends with the letter "m."

Jerry, M&Ms? I usually profile them by their colors :P

Miko76 - history and today is full of people "doing what they were told" from other nations to military personnel who obeyed illegal orders.

The Constitutional Oath - As noted in Article VI, all federal officials must take an oath in support of the Constitution: "The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States."

5 U. S. C. § 3331 This oath is taken by all federal employees, other than the President: "I, _________, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God."

Presidential Oath of Office: “I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States”

Justices of the Supreme Court of the United States are required to take two oaths, 5 U. S. C. § 3331 and 28 U. S. C. § 453: "I, _________, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will administer justice without respect to persons, and do equal right to the poor and to the rich, and that I will faithfully and impartially discharge and perform all the duties incumbent upon me as ________— under the Constitution and laws of the United States. So help me God."

All of them cannot take office/position they ran or were appointed to/for if they do not swear to support the US Constitution, support our form of government.

Miko76 - history and today is full of people "doing what they were told" from other nations to military personnel who obeyed illegal orders.

Agreed. The following orders defense didn't work at Nuremberg and it won't work here once Americans get fed up with these child molesters and grandma haters. I like Mike's solution- piss on them.

Losers who donot have any intelligence in the security field. You losers cannot be explained to,why ,what, when, where, take a bus and save your comments that actually you have no knowledge of what you are commenting about. Be thankful you get on a safe plane and donot think you know anything about the procedures because you donot. Its actually funny how ridiculous you are about what we are all going through pick up a paper and educate yourself on what is going on in the world and if you donot like it go to another country and fly out of there and maybe you will appreciate the safe services you take for granted.

Losers who donot have any intelligence in the security field

So saying that there are less invasive and effective alternatives makes us losers? Protecting people's civil liberties makes us losers? I would suggest that YOU pick up a paper. Israel is much more effective at ensuring airline safety, and in case you didn't notice they are in a more hostile region than we are, but they do it without strip searching 4 year olds and removing grandma's diaper. Please explain to me who is the LOSER again? Perhaps you should consider moving to a country who agrees with your removal of all basic freedoms. I hear Iran is nice this time of year, but the food is better in Korea.

Losers who donot have any intelligence in the security field.

So saying that there are less invasive and effective alternatives makes us losers? Protecting people's civil liberties makes us losers? I would suggest that YOU pick up a paper. Israel is much more effective at ensuring airline safety, and in case you didn't notice they are in a more hostile region than we are, but they do it without strip searching 4 year olds and removing grandma's diaper. Please explain to me who is the LOSER again? Perhaps you should consider moving to a country who agrees with your removal of all basic freedoms. I hear Iran is nice this time of year, but the food is better in North Korea.

I thought that groping a child is against the law? Don´t they jail people for 20 years or so for that offense? How do these people do this without being sent to jail or having to declare that they are child molesters? That is something to think about.

Yep. Over 25,000 breaches in security but they are worried about grandma's Depends!

http://travel.usatoday.com/flights/story/2011/07/Airport-security-breaches-since-2001-raise-alarms/49326312/1

In theory, exactly the same security is applied at train stations and cruise terminals as as airports. Needless to say, this is a joke.

jrh, I notice your pretty adept at name calling, but also just as adept at not posting a relevant comment. Is there a reason for this?

I do see comments from people who like telling others if they don't like what the TSA is doing, then don't fly. I do have to ask, what makes you believe they need to listen to someone who has no right to tell anyone else what they should or should not do? Or is it just a habit of posting governing comments for the world to take notice of, as if it were an authority thing?

Are you really that much of a flake?????

You can't talk to the gestapo like that. They are there to protect the government from disappearing and to curtail the freedoms we the people once enjoyed all in the name of security. All hail the mighty USA

Yeah, I'd be hiring a lawyer on that one.

We all need to stop flying if we want to fight back but it doesn't look like we can hold off on our vacations. I have stopped and will not go on any vacation that needs flight.

Go ahead. Yell obscenities at a cop who wants to do a field sobriety test on you. Refuse to comply with his instructions. See what what happens.

You forget that we only have the freedom of speech when its convenient.

Same here, tontosh. I haven't flown in years and don't plan to ever do it again.

I regretfully disagree - and have been convicted of this for telling a part-time cop with 4 hours of First Aid training that his supposed DUI had a serious head injury in a one-car accident after the air-bag did not deploy, the person's head hit the steering wheel, and had a seriously impaired level of consciousness (a direct trip to the hospital instead of jail).

In my state the statute is:

§501-A. Disorderly conduct

1. A person is guilty of disorderly conduct if:

A. In a public place, the person intentionally or recklessly causes annoyance to others by intentionally:

(1) Making loud and unreasonable noises;

(2) Activating a device, or exposing a substance, that releases noxious and offensive odors; or

(3) Engaging in fighting, without being licensed or privileged to do so;

B. In a public or private place, the person knowingly accosts, insults, taunts or challenges any person with offensive, derisive or annoying words, or by gestures or other physical conduct, that would in fact have a direct tendency to cause a violent response by an ordinary person in the situation of the person so accosted, insulted, taunted or challenged;

C. In a private place, the person makes loud and unreasonable noise that can be heard by another person, who may be a law enforcement officer, as unreasonable noise in a public place or in another private place, after having been ordered by a law enforcement officer to cease the noise; or

D. In a private or public place on or near property where a funeral, burial or memorial service is being held, the person knowingly accosts, insults, taunts or challenges any person in mourning and in attendance at the funeral, burial or memorial service with unwanted, obtrusive communications by way of offensive, derisive or annoying words, or by gestures or other physical conduct, that would in fact have a direct tendency to cause a violent response by an ordinary person in mourning and in attendance at a funeral, burial or memorial service.

2. As used in this section, unless the context otherwise indicates, the following terms have the following meanings.

A. "Public place" means a place to which the public at large or a substantial group has access, including but not limited to:

(1) Public ways as defined in section 505;

(2) Schools and government-owned custodial facilities; and

(3) The lobbies, hallways, lavatories, toilets and basement portions of apartment houses, hotels, public buildings and transportation terminals.

B. "Private place" means any place that is not a public place.

3. Disorderly conduct is a Class E crime.

This bottom line is, if I raise my voice, even slightly, to someone (in this case a part-time deputy sheriff), I can be (and was) arrested and spent a night in jail. As you can tell, this has nothing to do with the First Amendment.

"Disorderly conduct" can be the last resort of an idiot who can find no other reason to arrest you.

This half-written article seems like more of a warning-"Look- she defened her child and went to jail! SUBMIT!" They don't even have any information on what exactly was said, and by whom, or really why. You gotta love MSN and it's support of our tyrannist overlords. To all of you that lie down like a dog and submit, to a non police, unconstitutional force-SHAME ON YOU. I am free to come and go as I please, not be put on some secret list for reasons unkown, that you cannot get off of. Are you so afraid of big bad monsters that you will do anything they say? Well they love that. Don't fly? Again, my right, my choice. What will you say when you cannot get on a bus? A train? That's already started, you know. Where does it end? All of you who blindly support theses THUGS and they are nothing less- enjoy your trip to the fema camps. I'm sure you'll be happy to take whatever "vacceine" they give you, and hop right on board. We will be better off without you, and continue to fight for our freedom!

It is strange the TSA can touch people in unappropriate ways and not be arrested or by TSA yelling at passangers and not being arrested but passengers can get arrested for touching the TSA in unappropriate way and yelling to the TSA employess. This makes no sense. The rules should apply to everyone, not just the passengers.

It amazesme that given the world we live in there are a bunch of ignorant idiots that refuse security,

I don't mind at all being questioned, searched it is for my safety, if you morons don't want to be searched take the bus or the train or a burro stay away from planes. IDIOTS

It amazesme that given the world we live in there are a bunch of ignorant idiots that refuse security,

The TSA does not provide real security, but a false sense of security that we pay $2 billion a year for. We had to remove our shoes AFTER the shoe bomber was aboard an airplane. We had to be patted down AFTER the underwear bomber was aboard an airplane. Terrorists have proven to be will always be smarter than the TSA.

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/us-al-qaeda-designing-belly-bombs-beat-airbort/story?id=14008049

HMMM that would be the Federal Reserve Bank our real government.

I believe you're mistaking the Federal Reserve Bank for Wall Street.

The Federal Reserve is a private institution owned by bankers.

That pretty much makes it part of Wall Street.

Exactly. "It is significant that every Federal employee from the President on down, the CIA, FBI, Secret Service, Homeland Security, all Military, takes an oath to support and defend the Constitution and not an individual leader, ruler, office, or entity. This is true for the simple reason that the Constitution is based on lasting principles of sound government that provides balance, stability, and consistency through time. A government based on individuals—who are inconsistent, fallible, and often prone to error—too easily leads to tyranny on the one extreme or anarchy on the other."

It is also called "supporting domestic enemies" when this type of stuff is used by those who are under Oath to enforce and uphold the US Constitution.

simple - most people are stupid.

I have yet to understand why most of the public actually likes this and goes along with it.

I don't think anyone actually 'likes' it. I think those of us who must fly (as opposed to other forms of transport due to distance, timing, etc.) put up with it because there really isn't another choice. Want to get on a plane? Suffer the indignities of TSA. That's the only choice. What I don't understand is the self-righteousness of those who think they (and their children) are above the need to be searched. Then they complain. Then they get fined, jailed, or delayed. Then they complain about the fine / jail / delay. I have a question for them: Did your loud complaining get you to your destination on time and safely?

Okay, let's see. We have 2 alternatives when flying:

1.) Get a mildly invasive pat down on a very seldom basis.

2.) Blow up in an enormous fireball and, if you aren't already dead, plummet 35,000 feet before being crushed into a human-paste upon your impact with the ground.

Now, don't get me wrong, alternative #2 is pretty tempting, but I like being....you know....ALIVE.

Otsoko - look up false dichotomy.

Otsoko, One question for you. Have you ever been subjected to the what you call "mildly invasive" pat down? I am a frequent flyer with a medical implant who is subjected to the TSA violations every time I fly. I have first hand experience on numerous occasions in which the TSA agents hands have pushed into both my anal and vaginal areas. Not just lightly brushing over the areas, but PUSHING INTO the areas. I have raised the issue with the TSA supervisors at the check points as well as with TSA via their web site to find out if these violations are in fact within what TSA deems appropriate. They will not give me a straight answer. I now advise, in a professional manner, every TSA agent that is getting ready to do a pat down that I am a frequent traveler who has been subjected to inappropriate groping by other agents and that if this current agent does something I think is inappropriate that I will file a formal complaint. If the TSA agent is open to discussing my concerns I explain what has happened in the past. Many of them are shocked when I tell them the manner in which I have been violated, while a small percentage of them say that what I experienced does not violate their policy. So even the TSA agents don't seem to have a clear understanding of what their own rules are????

So, Otsoko, are you willing to have a stranger push their hands into your anal area and your vaginal or prostate area when you have not broken any laws? I am very interested in hearing your answer. If you have never been subjected to this then you have NO right to comment that it is "mildly invasive".

"What I don't understand is the self-righteousness of those who think they (and their children) are above the need to be searched."

SleepingCat, why would it be called self-righteousness, when people have flown for how many years now, without the need of these types of pat-downs? Tell me SleepingCat, what does the airport video cameras show of the kind of pat-down those "terrorists" went through the day they boarded those planes the day of 9/11, that we NOW have to change it, and be put through all of this?

2.) Blow up in an enormous fireball and, if you aren't already dead, plummet 35,000 feet before being crushed into a human-paste upon your impact with the ground.

Now, don't get me wrong, alternative #2 is pretty tempting, but I like being....you know....ALIVE.

Or the MOST likely situation where you're subjected to an embarrassing and invasive pat down procedure along with your 3 year old daughter and still end up blowing up in an enormous fireball. This is the TSA!! The same organization that didn't find the shoe bomber, that didn't prevent the underwear bomber from getting on a plane despite being on a no-fly list in Europe, who has let stun guns, knives, scissors, etc on planes unknowingly. There are cases where people have "Accidentally" gotten GUNS on the plane. Do you really think this middle-aged, minimum wage, low-skilled pedophile is going to protect you from an organized and dedicated terrorist? You would be better off praying to a big purple stuffed pumpkin than relying on these idiots.

They "go along with it" because they do NOT understand that this is against our Constitution which defines our government, our country, our freedoms.

This is abetting domestic enemies against the United States of America (which is defined by the Constitution).

All of "our" government, FBI, CIA, SS, Homeland Security, all federal law enforcement know this yet are going against their Oaths to defend the Constitution of the United States.

So, does this mean America no longer truly exists, or do we, as American Citizens who believe in our country and Constitution, fire and prosecute those who are destroying us?

Senecafalls, the search protocol is "until the agent meets with resistance".. This does NOT indicate anal or genital penetration, however slight. Without exception. Period. Therefore, IF what you say is true, IF this was to occur in the future (which is likely, as you claim that you are "violated" by TSA EVERY time you fly), you absolutely must summon a supervisor AND a police officer. Right then and there, file a complaint IN WRITING. Get a police badge number AND blotter report number to substantiate your claim of sexual assault for subsequent civil litigation. That is, IF what you say is true.

Bottom line: prove it.

The stupid people of America have no problem giving up OUR rights. They are too afraid to say anything. Shame on every single one of them.

Exactly Right! But the thanks really goes to GW Bush for creating Homeland Security and turning the TSA Goons loose on US.

The fact is they do have other mechanisms in place, they need to stretch their budget to buy more scanners than hiring more people pat people down. Although I would prefer to use the non- backscatter scanner.

Israel uses profiling and dogs for the detection of explosives and other materials. I can't think how long since an Israeli plan was knocked from the sky., and they are major targets. I was impressed by their security.

The sad fact is TSA have stopped nothing. I don't recall a bomb being detected by this group.

People object to the pat down because they are invasive, they DO have other methods available but still insist that patting down a 6 year old is OK. It also has to do with the surly and rude way it is done.

No, the fact is that most people who are patted down are patted down because they decide they don't want to go through the scanners. So what's the TSA supposed to do, let someone who doesn't want to go through the scanner just go on their merry way?

Madison, read Krestov's answer!

Well stated, madison-1272000!!

Bomb sniffing dogs are the perfect answer. Non-invasive, much more effective, and cute! (And cheaper too)

Sorry, bomb sniffing dogs are not cheaper. One trained dog costs approximately $10,000.00, plus the cost of the handler.

In addition, with over 20000 domestic flights per day, logistically, it would require thousands of dogs and would be very time consuming; there would be many false positives and dogs get tired (and have other unpleasant matters). Machines don't.

No, they haven't stopped a terrorist yet. Your reasoning is exactly how America will lose our rights, it won't happen by a violent take over.

Keith:

No, they haven't stopped a terrorist yet.

HOW DO YOU KNOW? From where do you glean your information? Do you think that our security has DETERRED another attack????? It's been TEN YEARS and counting, since 9/11. No successful bombing of a US Aircraft. That's good news.

Glad your opinions are not what influences the TSA procedures.

Where oh where Randall will you draw the line? Is there nothing that you will not let the government do? Have you completely given up on the notion of liberty? Freedom is almost always lost from the inside, not the outside and it is lost incrementally, not in big chunks. I'm sure in 1773 there were lots of people saying, "if you don't like the tea tax, drink coffee and shut the hell up". Terrorist groups have absolutely no ability to take away our freedom. The only force strong enough to take away the freedom of the american people is the federal government of the United States. Terrorists might make the timid among us afraid to exercise their freedoms but they cannot take them away. Our "benevolent" government, working only in the interest of our safety, can take them away. Frankly, I would rather be a little less safe and a little more free.

In a democracy one does not need to "shut up" just because there is a system in place we HAVE to take part in. Complaints like this help a bad system improve. Like it or not the TSA are here but we damn well don't have to put up with disrespectful and militant behavior and being treated in a demeaning way. In this way TSA will think of better systems that are less invasive and less labor intensive.

This is still a country where we can express our displeasure and express our views.

@joemike404:

I'm sure you say "you'd rather be a little less safe and a little more free" now, but I'm sure if you were in a situation where your plane was about to be blown up or hijacked, you'd say otherwise. Because I assure you, you'd have no freedom then.

Krestov: we damn well don't have to put up with disrespectful and militant behavior and being treated in a demeaning way.

No you don't. Greyhound/Amtrak/DRIVE.

Oh, you want the convenience/speed of flying? Can't take a bus to Europe? Quit your "I'm American so I'm entitled" bull@!$%#, pull your head out of your ass, and deal with 21st-century reality.

I've said it before: I'm all in favor of setting up special flights with absolutely NO security, so people like you can travel as you see fit, and people who give a damn about maybe getting there alive have their way too. I'm also in favor of painting huge bullseyes on the security-free planes, and broadcasting which flights are terrorist-friendly.

D-Cole,

If I am ever on a plane that is being highjacked and about to go down, I have no doubt that I will be scared and terrified and will probably want my "blanky". To be frightened in the heat of the moment is a normal reaction for anyone in that type of situation. If however, I have to chose between dying tomorrow in a plane crash or living for the next 30 years in a virtual police state - its no contest.

D-Cole. You are wrong. Most of the people who are patted down are individuals with medical devices. Keep in mind that not all TSA check points utilize the body scanner. I am one of those people with a medical device. Why should I be forced to being violated every time I fly? The majority of my flights are business trips. So my options are quit my job or subject myself to the violations. Until you have been subject to the TSA violations you have no business commenting.

Randall - What happens when TSA starts having the same procedures for buses and trains? You can blow up just as many people on a train or bus as you can on a plane. Where do we draw the line????

senecafalls: I am one of those people with a medical device. Why should I be forced to being violated every time I fly?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but just as there is a "Don't let this person on" list, is there not a "This person flies frequently and is OK" list? Pretty sure there is. Look into it.

As far as the bus/trains thing...If I'm driving my car and tell you "You can ride with me but you'll follow my rules", are you going to argue with me? Not if you want that ride. You don't own the airlines; if they say line up for inspection, it's their house and their rules. You're an idiot for arguing.

All you pinheads screaming about losing your freedoms, I look forward to you losing one freedom: The freedom to live. You going to bitch and moan when your body ends up in 3 states? When your family gets blown up because it's more important to you to get an extra hour of sleep that get to the airport a little early?

Randall-1929901- There is no "Frequent Flyer List for OK People"...... haha....You are one totally screwed-up jerk who is so full of hate and fear you are pathic......YOU look forward to someone losing their freedom to live? It sounds like you are either a Terrorist or a TSA Goon..........so WHAT are you...or do you really know WHAT you are?

HumanBeing_983: That's odd. I just checked the TSA site. They DID have such a program. Maybe it's not there now; if they stopped it, that's the one stupid thing they've done.

And yes, I know what I am: Someone who can make a coherent sentence. You? And what's "pathic"? Besides your babbling.

There really isn't a better way. People suggested everyone fly naked so the TSA could see they aren't concealing anything. Ggood idea! So now the government has "leaked" information that terrorists are planning on attacking us by surgically implanting bombs into terrorists. What will be next for TSA? Doctors on staff with rubber gloves to perform body cavity searches and detailed skin analysis looking for scars? Most people don't blame the government for 9/11 happening. What they blame the government about 9/11 is that many branches of law enforcement knew of the threat and ignored it. So now, because a bunch of government employees were too egotistical or lazy to do their job correctly, they invade everyone's personal space searching for what will never be there. We teach our kids from a young age to never let a stranger touch them in their "private" areas. Now we have to teach them the caveat "except for TSA agents wearing rubber gloves". They can put their hands anywhere on our bodies they wish and if we resist or argue we are threatened with jail. Yeah, nice program. Welcome to America!

This isn't about being screened.... We try to teach our kids to never let a stranger touch them, anyone!!!

Walking through a scanner, no problem. But a body search! Please. A wand scanner, ok. Asking a a kid or teen to strip, or be body searched. This is not what our founders fathers had in mind.

Until you can't do that either, moron. Do you believe this keeps you safe? Dumb, dumb, dumb.

Randall - Thanks for the advice, next time I flight to China, I'm taking the greyhound all the way there!

You do know ppl flight out of the country, right?

Thomas Jefferson and John Adams would be so proud...

Don't fly, it's easy. Who would want to subject themselves to being treated like a criminal for a ride in a combination prison/cattle car for the sake of convenience anyway? Next will be all forms of public transportation (it supports the economy), and then the malls (which are an open target anyway since - God forbid - there is no TSA, no metal detectors and no strip searches, because it supports the economy). The lunatics are in charge of the assylum here. The country is going to hell in a handbasket and picking up speed.

AC - the choice to not fly is simply not feasible for many. I fly on business (I drive on vacation). I live on one coast. If I have to get to the other coast on business, I can't take an extra week for car/train/bus. And I can't take another week to travel via ship to get to Europe or other countries. Your "simple" suggestion shows just how "simple minded" you are. There's a bigger world out there than the one you inhabit.

yeah, as long as you don't have to fly to the departure port.

Looks like TSA overlooked this wide open threat from cruises. Get ready to bend over & spread 'em.

Merrill-387190, BINGO !! Using dogs has been what I've said all along, the reason it will never happen is that you can't unionize dogs :-)

Watch Fox much?

Merrill,

You seem to forget that Bush created the TSA. Fox News forget to tell you that?

The problem with that is that there isn't just ONE kind of explosive. And what about explosive hidden in airtight containers? Just like all knives aren't made out of metal (which defeats the metal detectors), the best way to thwart weapons is a human search augmented by a mechanical detector. Just go through the scanner! You'll be past TSA security before you know it.

The problem with that is that there isn't just ONE kind of explosive. And what about explosive hidden in airtight containers? Just like all knives aren't made out of metal (which defeats the metal detectors), the best way to thwart weapons is a human search augmented by a mechanical detector. Just go through the scanner! You'll be past TSA security before you know it.

"What's the matter with the idiots in the Obama administration? They could "hire" explosive sniffing dogs teams for a small fraction the cost of the scanners and they're far better at the job. This, not to mention, they could stop infringing upon our constitutionally guaranteed rights and they'd not get nearly so much bad press. Are these people just plain stupid?"

What part of it is illegal for the POTUS, the legislative branch, the judicial branch, all federal employees to not follow the US Constitution in this country do you not get?

Article VI requires an oath by all government officials from all three branches, the military, and the States swearing to support and defend the Constitution of the United States of America. The second part, the Oath, addresses future performance, that is, what they swear to do in the future when they take their term of office or position. It establishes a clear, publicly sworn accountability to the American citizens. The accountability within the Oath is that they all have to ".. support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same"

Which is NOT being done. (Nor was it done by Bush either)

Hey! Let's not have any security. And when we get Ka...Boooomed...again, maybe it will make sense. Americans and complaining all the time with no respect, if Isreal had been this naive they would not exist. Idiots forget what 9-11 was so fast, put the bloody kid through and your self and stop wasting time. "Oh! my daughter was being touched.." Stupid American's wake up, it's the era of terrorism and it will not end now just get used to it. SCANNER or get touched, doh!

And sniff dog's will not recognized that human expression and behavior that an officer or other human being can. Why are Americans so naive on this vine? If the dogs could figure out 9-11, then guess what? the Twin Towers and lives of thousands would have been saved. But the dogs are limited, very. And Further more Obama Adminstration did not creat the TSA, or Airport security, and I don't want a bloody dog sniffing my ass any. Get the scanner!

No, people at the top are smart enough to know that a lot of terrified, ill informed people are stupid enough to believe the tsa and "homeland security"eeech saying that makes me want to puke! are actually helping them stay safe. It acclimates them to submit on command, like a dog, whenever told. This is coming to more places in your hometown. What will we do about it?

TSA is staffed by the same underpaid, undereducated, undertrained boobs that were "Security Guards" prior to 911. That this woman was booked for defending her daughter from the clutches of these neo-Nazis is a travesty. The American people are to be congratulated for allowing our civil liberties to be stomped and left for dead. Can Armageddon be far behind?

They are NOT Security, they are a bleed on the taxpayers as oblowholes and nappy's minions. Look at the truth you liberal blinded butt, easier than ass!

Nappy flat out said the the "American Veteran is the BIGGEST threat to AMERICAN SECURITY!"" So where were you? Kissing some black ass in D.C.?

Robert...WTF?

"They are probably the lowest paid employees of Homeland Security and don't deserve the constant belittlement"

As a Homeland Security employee: Homeland Security -

As Federal civil servants, we take an oath of office by which we swear to support and defend the Constitution of the United States of America. The Constitution not only establishes our system of government, it actually defines the work role for Federal employees - "to establish Justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty."

The history of the Oath for Federal employees can be traced to the Constitution, where Article II includes the specific oath the President takes - to "preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States." Article VI requires an oath by all other government officials from all three branches, the military, and the States. It simply states that they "shall be bound by oath of affirmation to support the Constitution." The very first law passed by the very first Congress implemented Article VI by setting out this simple oath in law: "I do solemnly swear or affirm (as the case may be) that I will support the Constitution of the United States."

The second part addressed future performance, that is, what you would swear to do in the future. It established a clear, publicly sworn accountability: "I, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God".

This is NOT Constitutional

I agree 100% with your comment, upstateny-2098796!!

Yes it does! Everyone who works for them, or supports them in any way, is indeed a domestic THREAT. Period. They are the enemy. Doing it for minimum wage just makes them incredibly stupid.

They are the lowest paid because they lack skills. The just following orders routine didn't work in Nuremberg and when this country finally wakes up and overthrows these perverts, that excuse won't work her either!

YO!!! @!$%#!!! America has had enough of this non qualified a..lholes crap and we will take America back, this nig isn't qualified for anything!!!!!!

That's a chance I'm willing to take Sean, if an actual REAL police officer is not allowed to pat down (touch) my UNDERAGE daughter, then there is absolutely NO way I'm going to allow some civilian do it.

Robert If YOU represent the "New America" then this country is dead meat already! You and your ilk have already taken this country to the brink of destruction and your choice of "words" reveals you for what you truly are....UN-American Racist KKK Pig

Sean clearly has never had kids....

1SGFitzsWife4ID, I am a Deputy Sheriff and you are correct. I am not allowed to even pat down a FEMALE period. And when we do have to pat you down, YOU KNOW YOU HAVE BEEN SEARCHED. What is wrong with you people. Nancy Pelosi has stated That I as a VETERAN of the US Military am a potental terrorist. And why are you allowing your freedoms to be taken from you?

Combatmedic; sounds like you're one of the good guys:)

You pussies who tell people to get over it. Please move to another country like china. Your'e just making it easier for the government to take our rights away one by one!!! Friggin sheep who want to live under a nanny government!!!!! I don't want the govt telling me what to do, if I did I would move to another country. If a TSA agent was gonna try to touch one of my kids they would be laying on the floor trying to find out what happened to them. I applause this mother who was trying to protect her child!!!!!!!!

The problem is they don't check arabs and other far east fliers because it is profiling. Brought to you by obama and the rest of the muslims in this country!!!!!!

Way to go Tim, many of us are with you.