Probably not a big threat. They must have watched the last batman movie. It did work pretty well for the Joker. But I doubt they would be able to pull it off as well.

Just profile anyone who looks constipated.

Yeah, this makes no sense. Wouldn't they get caught up in the metal detectors with wiring?

lol. Yea it really isn't a big threat. These terrorists really don't hate us as much as they say they do. Now that Bush is no longer POTUS they have forgiven America. After all they were only mad because they didn't like Bush right?

now they are insuinating that "implants" will be employed to deliver their payload of vile filth.......watch out for the breast implant police to initiate patdowns at all the airports.......must be the feds version of fringe benefits in order to boost morale within the TSA.

msnbc:...Placing explosives and explosive components inside humans to hide bombs and evade security measures is not a new idea.

Well! Finally my invention will be in use. The device I have invented can detect or see components with least "***" in human body. Passengers can be tested in various ways to make sure they are not carriers of safety hazard devices in their body. More scanning !!

Kayner

lol. Yea it really isn't a big threat. These terrorists really don't hate us as much as they say they do. Now that Bush is no longer POTUS they have forgiven America. After all they were only mad because they didn't like Bush right?

You need to reread the 911 reports if you bothered to read it the first time. It's well documented that 911 was a second attempt because the first attempt a year before was called off.

Clinton was president during the first attempt.

Did Clinton listen to warnings? Did he pass the information on to the next president? Did the next president heed the warning?

In case you have a problem with the questions the answers are yes, yes, no.

It was a daily brief called "Bin Ladin Determined To Strike in US."

Larry, you and toasty are idiots if you thnk Clinton heeded any warnings, he was busy with more important matters, like lying to all of us about Lewinsky. These people hate all of us, including Clinton, Obama, me you anyone who don't see it their way, which you never will. Or maybe you do, and I don't.

more b.s. from a corrupt goverment

That's right, Skiddy. And not only that, but Obama is kidnapping our white women to feed to King Kong.

Man, don't you ever turn off the "paranoid tea party hyperbole" button every once in a while and act like an adult?

It is an excuse to sell those xray machines over seas. TSA will make a profit off of them.

jgh n clovis:

It is not b.s. and is a real threat. A powerful explosive device as small as a pacemaker can easily be implanted in the stomach, breasts or chest wall. Reliable detection is questionable.

Worse, there is an abundant supply of suicide bombers willing to explode themselves and others for Allah. This is not be an easy threat to detect and prevent.

You just said it usn_usmc_mom! I thought the exact same thing, they're coming up with a moronic story to "legitamize" their x-ray scanners. complete BS, this one.

LOL skiddy if newt had spent a little more time doing his girlfriend in the office and little less time worrying about Bill getting a a little on the side he would not have been worried about it at all. But even those attempts to persecute from the faulty pulpit republicans preach from did not keep Bill from ordering air marshalls onto all domestic flights when the hyjack risk was made aware hence they aborted the attack the info is easily found if you care to look. But tea baggers don't care about facts just rhetoric.

In the '50s there was a commie boogie man on every corner. Today, there's a terrorist on every airport. America is governed by schizophrenics.

In the '50s, the hysteria of commie infiltration into the America social fabric resulted in the McCarthy Era, where Senate hearings turned into witch hunts and trial by TV. Hollywood actors and others were dragged into the spectacle. When fear and suspicion run high, the search for scapegoat found the easy target, again: The Jews. Anti-Jew sentiments ultimately found their expression in the execution of husband and wife Rosenthal(sic), both innocent of espionage charges. Prosecuting and obtaining conviction of Alger Hiss(sic) as a commie spy, Richard Nixon capitalized on the hysteria and catapulted himself onto the national spotlight as the up-and-coming political star.

American schizophrenia also saw the commie boogie man as an well-armed adversary with intent to destroy the last shred of America. In response to such perception, America went on a military spending spree building thousands of ICBM silos across the nation; launched hundreds of nuclear missile submarines; commissioned a 300 ship navy with 12 attack carriers; deployed the readiness of several B-52 squadrons in-the-air-at-all-times 24/7 loaded with nuke bombs; and more than half millions of combat troops on a high state of alert stationed around the globe.

In the end, the communism of the Soviet Union, the "Evil Empire," collapsed from within and ironically, died without a single shot fired from America's "arsenal of democracy." Soon, the public discovered the much feared menacing Russian Bear was a paper mache masqueraded and perpetrated by America's military industrial complex (MIC) as well as schizo expedient politicians.

In the new millenium the schizophrenics in government has replaced the fear of communist world domination with fear of domestic Terrorism. Naturally, the MIC has profited from anti-Terrorist wars around the world while certain expedient politicians are waving their bloody shirt. While they win, American citizens lose. As in the McCarthy Era, Americans, today, are subjected to unlawful searches and interrogations. In the effort of curbing imaginary terrorist activity rather than any real threat, Federal laws such as the Patriot Act that usurp the protection of the US Constitution are passed. In the anti-commie era, the fear of "UnAmerican Activities" motivated Congress to pass similar laws that sold-out wholesale the liberties guaranteed by the Bill of Rights.

Within the framework of the Homeland Security Department, the schizophrenics have been able to fabricate and orchestrate ever more intrusive laws and conducts: TSA does whole body searches. Every traveler is subject to a body scan, probing, squeezing, and poking. Every piece of baggage is open and rummaged. The FBI has heighten surveillance of innocent Americans using dubious means and standards.

The claim that terrorists have considered implanting explosive devices within the body cavity can only serve to height the hysteria over domestic terrorism to another plateau. In the mind of the schizo, the unauthorized surgical investigation and removal of a suspected or ambiguous item in body cavity are absolutely necessary to the national security. Coming to the airport near you, TSA operated surgical rooms and Cat-scanners.

.

Muslim terrorist planning new attacks . You got to be kidding, we are pouring millions of dollars to the Arab Spring , Qaddafi call Obama his brother, where is the hate. They are peace loving people

Don't fly and you are safe from "sudden impact". If you do fly, better get a "batman suit".

FatCatGets$700Bil:

I'm glad you're not deciding security for air travel. You talk about schizophrenia, yet you are no less delusional about current and evolving threats. Why so forgetful?

9/11 occurred with the utmost simplicity. Implanting a bomb, the size of a pacemaker, is a perfect crime and costs very little in parts or "manpower".

The core problem is not terrorists and what they might and might not do. The core problem is the TSA and how they react to potential threats.

Any psychologist worth their salt can tell you about a piece of human nature called "projection." Psychological projection or projection bias is a psychological defense mechanism where a person subconsciously denies his or her own attributes, thoughts, and emotions, which are then ascribed to the outside world, usually to other people. Thus, projection involves imagining or projecting the belief that others originate those feelings. Projection can also be established as a means of obtaining or justifying certain actions that would normally be found atrocious or heinous. This often means projecting false accusations, information, etc., onto an individual for the sole purpose of maintaining a self-created illusion. One of the many problems with the process whereby 'something dangerous that is felt inside can be moved outside - a process of "projection"' - is that as a result 'the projector may become somewhat depleted and rendered limp in character, as he loses part of his personality'.

With the TSA, this comes into play as a form of impotence and frustration. The TSA cannot reach out and actually do anything about terrorists, so it projects the frustration and anger onto airline passengers instead. In their simplistic and deluded rationalization, the TSA believes that by conducting the most intrusive forms of security checks on innocents, they are somehow inconveniencing terrorists. What they are actually do is to act as a proxy for terrorism and shows that they are "doing their job."

1) The TSA "open budget" is around $43.5 billion dollars a year. If you add in the intelligence operations tasked by the TSA and "cooperation" with local law enforcement as well as other "dark budget" items, the estimated cost is around $65-$70 billion a year.

2) The TSA has set something of a record for being a cash cow for political corruption. Because it has such a significant covert budget, it is very difficult to have true Congressional or public oversight. And money that cannot be readily audited has always been a lightening rod for corruption. And I don't mean that abstract corruption that most Americans attribute to politicians, but real dollars and cents corruption where individuals land millions in contracts with such "red flags" as no-bid contracts. As one example, around a dozen Congressmen and uncountable staffers own stock in companies that make airport scanners. These Congressmen vote heavily in favor of TSA funding. The companies then contribute heavily to politicians' campaigns, speaking engagements for Congressmen and even things like free junkets to "security seminars" in places like Cancun.

3) Employee security among TSA employees is a huge problem. They are basically minimum wage jobs that have little long-term opportunity for advancement. The TSA maintains that they do an "extensive" background check on every employee. In fact, what they do is a 35-day NACIC which is a computer records check of the places the individual claims to have lived for the past five years. The database indicates only felony convictions and does not show arrests, misdemeanors, expunged convictions, etc. And in these days of budget-cutting smaller police departments (from cities/countys with less than 250,000 population) personnel cuts have caused many crimes to not be recorded in the FBI database. It is estimated that around 65-70% of all TSA employees have a disqualifying criminal record. The TSA has lied about this over and over.

4) Over 7,000 TSA employees have been fired for "misconduct", a euphemism for stealing from passengers or their luggage. The TSA has refused to release the exact number because they contend that it would undermine the "credibility" of the TSA. They have prosecuted only 2 TSA employees for theft.

5) I have a house near the Unclaimed Luggage store in northern Alabama. They are the people who buy all the "lost" luggage from airlines, bus companies, cruise lines, etc. (The airlines actually make a small profit from lost luggage.) Since the TSA started screening luggage the UL people say that the number of suitcases that are resellable has plummeted as has the number of cameras, expensive perfume, etc that come to the store. One UL managed showed me a typical example. He had just received a nice softside American Tourister softside suitcase. It has a small slit in one side (making it worthless for resale) with a small "C" marked in what looks like white chalk. When the suitcase is opened, there is a clear imprint of a camera that had been packed so as to be padded with clothing. The tag on the bag indicates Hickory, NC. The manager explained that the screener marks the luggage when he sees something worth stealing. They know that they will only be fired and not prosecuted if they are caught, so he marks the bag. A confederate then slits the bag open, removes the item and removes the luggage tags. He then replaces the tag with one for a small airport with no baggage office where it may sit for weeks before being declared "lost." There are thousands of these "lost" bags every day. The TSA contends that it is an airline problem, not theirs. But the question arises, If the TSA cannot catch its own internal thieves, what chance do they have of catching a committed terrorist?

6) Another example of TSA lies is the question of what they do with thousands of "prohibited" items confiscated from passengers. The TSA claims that most are destroyed, but that knives, for example, are donated to the Boy Scouts. The Boy Scouts deny this. And, it you go on eBay and search descriptions on "tsa knives lot" you will find that TSA employees sell the items on eBay with no oversight. You can also find perfume, embroidery scissors, and liquids such as 4.5-oz bottles of expensive perfumes. Some TSA employees have found a nice reliable "side business" doing this.

7) The TSA has created a number of ways to "punish" anyone who dares to complain. They rationalize that anyone criticizing the TSA is against airport security and must be a form of terrorist sympathizer. If you complain, you will find yourself on the "Separate Luggage" list which requires that you check ALL luggage and then flies you and your luggage on separate flights. There are "Enhanced Security" lists that will get you anything up to a full body cavity search. Whether your name is on a list or not is "secret" and there is no appeal to get your name off the list.

8) The security that TSA administers is supposedly exactly the same for airports, train stations, cruise ship terminals and other places. In fact, the TSA concentrates over 90% of its efforts on airports. I was just on a cruise. It was easy to smuggle a bottle of gin and a bottle of vodka onto a cruise ship. I have carried pocket knives and all sorts of forbidden liquids, etc on Amtrak trains. The TSA will not crank up security on other forms of transportation AFTER a major incident.

I am very concerned because I had a knee replacement 2 1/2 years ago. Because of this, the TSA has placed me on an "enhanced security" list which guarantees that I will always be subjected to "an intensive patdown with special attention to the groin and breast areas." I was shown the list by a Delta gate attendant at Heathrow just recently. I have been through airport security scores of times since then. My name always comes up for enhanced security and it always prints on my boarding pass as "ESS." During these scores of times, I have been subjected to very intrusive patdowns that included, as recently as three weeks ago, of fondling of my privates and having to remove my trousers. Of these scores of times NOT ONCE has the TSA been able to identify my artificial knee as a metal and plastic object that is almost identical in size and mass to a Glock 9. NOT ONCE! These people are just that incompetent. By putting mu name on the ESS list without a reason, they have reason to look for something the size of a gun, but have never found it. I already have to report to ticketing 4 hours prior to flying. But I am seriously concerned that this bit of paranoia about implanted bombs, etc will cause me even further problems.

The TSA has a minimum work force of 47,000 screeners. Since its formation, the TSA has hired around 160,000 people. This is readily available information. But of the total hired, this means that over 113,000 TSA employees have either been fired or have quit. Within this number are a lot of problems, the main problem is that with that level of turnover, huge amounts of training dollars are being thrown away, mission effectiveness is greatly diminished, and there is a growing pool of disgruntled former TSA employees who know where all the weak spots are.

But a fear that is never discussed is that the Congress has created a large almost paramilitary force that has little to no accountability and has spent over $400 billion with no significant success. Every "blind test" of the system, even when there is warning to supervisors has been failed by the TSA. In fact, the TSA curtailed such tests for around a year because guns, tiny amounts of explosives, box cutters, etc, planted by TSA "auditors" went sailing right through TSA security and onto aircraft where is was taken, to some embarrassment, to other countries. This force has extraordinary subpoena powers and because of the so-called "patriot" Act, is not really accountable to anyone. If I were plotting to overthrow the US government, getting controlled of the TSA would be a good start towards that goal.

In these budget-tightening days, the TSA needs to be on the table. Why do we have a completely ineffective agency that we spend billions on annually that exists only to harass innocent passengers? We are paying a huge amount of taxpayer money for an extremely small amount of additional security. The 80/20 Rule of Thumb says that we could achieve 80% of the current TSA function with less than 20% of the current costs. Do we really need security theater? Do we really want to be groped by people who couldn't catch a terrorist if one was biting them on the butt?

Larry-2260635 - Did Clinton listen to warnings? Did he pass the information on to the next president? Did the next president heed the warning? In case you have a problem with the questions the answers are yes, yes, no.

Once again a Moe Larry Curly posting. It was President Clinton (42) that GUTTED the US Intelligence Agencies of Former Director of the CIA, President Bush (41). This also resulted in his "Budget Surplus" and Intelligence Blackouts of entire Regions, especially the "Middle East". The US then had to rely on potentially hostile intelligence sources that were non verifiable, non credible, with ulterior motives. President Clinton also to obtain his Budget Surplus Cut the US Military to the Bone with his Reduction In Forces (RIF), the result was there were no longer enough US Military Asymmetric Warfare Forces to independently verify the US Intelligence Agencies intelligence, more thrown on Unemployment, and the niches for the expensive US Contractors (looked nice on paper as Propaganda; but, resulted in the current situation with expensive US Contractors filling those previous inexpensive US Military Positions, resulting in a very large US Defense Budget (most going to expensive US Civilians employed by US Military)). Also part of his "Budget Surplus" was the closure of 14 US Military Installations resulting in the permanent loss of many US Civilian Jobs both on the US Military Installations (directly) and indirectly all the jobs in the nearbytowns, cities, of local government (decreased revenues), transportation, contractors, car dealerships, retail, fast food, theaters, restaurants, schools (for the dependent children), etc. resulting in near Great Depression Era Economies in those US Civilian communities, with the Contractors leaving to other US Military Installations (permanent loss of more US Civilian Jobs), those that could afford it fled those areas to another US Military Installation so that they would still have a job.

So the complete answer to your question, is that President Clinton had no Intelligence. And had no Intelligence to pass to President Bush. Did President Clinton heed the warnings NO because there were no Warnings, no Intelligence that was credible and verifiable, including prior to the President Clinton's 1993 First World Trade Center Bombing.

The Budget Surplus was a joke (Propaganda tool) as US Congress sandbagged the US Budget by appropriating more money than could be spent. The real indicator of the US Economy is the Interest on the National Debt.

From the DNC (Democratic National Committee):

President Clinton's Interest on the National Debt: $18.9 Billion

President Bush's Interest on the National Debt: $16.6 Billion

To whom ever wrote this Article and those that really want information (Newsvine, "A Place to Get Smarter"):

Al Qaeda Bombers Learn from Drug Smugglers (Defeats Full Body Scanners)(look at the date, shortly after this article I researched the Saudi Arabia incident, then informed all of you with Newsvine Posts since then.).

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/09/28/eveningnews/main5347847.shtml?tag=pop

So all of you, drop them pants, underware, bend over, reach back with your hands and spread them cheeks and pray that is a gloved hand checking out your arse cavity and not 8===>o (two gloved hands on your shoulders).

Unlike President Clinton think with the head between your shoulders and not your 8===> (head between your legs).

The last terrorist that tried this, was the head of Al-queada in the Arabian peninsula's brother, who stuffed a bomb in is rectum, at his brother's insistence and tried to blow up a saudi prince. When the bomb went off his body absorbed most of the explosion, sending his parts flying. The prince who was in extreme close proximity and his body guards only had minor injuries afterward. This doesn't work, that's why they never tried to scan for it, its like diving on a grenade, it just makes a big mess but only the bomber gets blown to bits.

Sounds lie more scare tactics so the TSA can stay in business. A fearful public is a controlled public. Welcome to the new world order citizens.

Oh this is great, now I'll have get a government pacemaker ID card to be able to fly. It would be an interesting concept though. 1/2lb of C4 and a battery that lasts up to 8 years and delivers a shock that can drop you to your knees. Use a cell phone as a remote detonator. It could be done.....guess I won't fly anymore......

Randy-2190191:

re: Your "expert" assertion that "only the bomber blows up"

Sept. 28, 2009

"Explosives experts tell CBS News that beep was likely a text message activating the bomb concealed inside Asieri.

The Trojan bomber hands the phone to Prince Mohammed. He's standing next to him, and 14 seconds later, he detonates.

"This is the nightmare scenario," said Chris Yates, an aviation security consultant.

On a plane at altitude, the effects of such a bomb could be catastrophic. And there is no current security system that could stop it."

Source: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/09/28/eveningnews/main5347847.shtml

Randy-2190191,

Go take a course in EOD (Explosive Ordnance Disposal, as to know how to disarm explosives you have to know how they are made and their effects)(a mandatory course for those in US Military Asymmetric Warfare to remain competitive for promotion). Just like the attempts to kill Hitler, their mistake to kill Hitler was that the room was too large made of wood and the windows were open (dissipation of the blast and concussive effects) in the case of the link I posted the room was too large, so in a confined small space of an aircraft there will be no dissipation of the blast and concussive effects. Depending on the explosives used the resonance factor would tear the entire aircraft to pieces.

David, who gave Osama bin Laden all the training he need to become a terrorist? Reagan and G H W Bush.

Who sold Saddam the WMDs? Reagan and G H W Bush.

Who attacked Iraq and set the stage for terrorism from the middle east? G H W Bush.

Who forced the budget cuts to the military in the late 1990s? The Republican controlled House Representatives.

Who spent a small fortune trying to find something on the Clinton family? The Republican controlled House.

Who said they were going to cut the ,military some more after taking office? G W Bush

Who was president when the August 2001 PDB was given to the president that warned of an imminent attack from Osama bin Laden? G W Bush

Who ran the deficit up to $10.6 trillion and caused this economy to nearly collapse? Once again G W Bush

You call us Mo, Larry, and Curly but it's you who comes off as the idiot. Your comment: "It was President Clinton (42) that GUTTED the US Intelligence Agencies of Former Director of the CIA, President Bush (41)". Yeah, they called that an election which Clinton won and Bush lost. So ahead, drink the kool-aid and call people insulting names but you cannot change the fact that the Republicans have been the worst party for America in the last 30 years and they are still trying to bring this country to it's knees with their "NO" policy. They have been responsible for about 75% of the deficit before Obama and have ran the deficit up to the point that a huge part of the federal budget is to pay off the interest ran up by the Republicans.

I'd like to add one more comment. The first time the World Trade Center was bombed was on Feb, 26, 1993 which was just over one month (about 5 weeks) after Clinton took office. Not one time did Clinton try to pass blame to Bush since he had not been in office that long.

When the WTC was hit on 9/11/2001, G W Bush had been in office a full 8 1/2 months with warnings that we could be attacked but those on the right still try to pin the blame on Clinton.

Just once I'd like to see some Republicans accept blame for their errors instead of pointing the finger at someone else. Bush had ample warning that an attack was imminent but chose to ignore them or as some conspiracy theorist might say, allowed it to happen to further his agenda which was to have an excuse to attack Iraq.

Chris, excellent post. Some of the things you said sounded unbelievable, so I googled them, and whadaya know? You were right about the things I looked up. What was especially suprising is one company actually advertises on ebay that they carry the knives you were mentioning.

Amazing what people will do when they know they can get away with it...

Here's what I think- first of all, we built the TSA all wrong. We should've gone after the absolute best that money could buy in terms of help- not the most. In hiring a huge mass of unqualified individuals and only giving them the most basic training, we created a workforce that's ill-tempered, undertrained, underpaid and undersupervised. What should've happened is we should have started in the highest threat areas (NY, DC, LA, SF are a few that come to mind), set forth stringent hiring qualifications, make the individuals go to training like police or military personell do (i.e. 4-8 week "boot camp"), and finally pay these individuals very very well. Like, well enough to make them not want to lose their jobs over a bunch of crappy knives. Second, once this happened, and once there was an established cadre of qualified, trustworthy individuals/teams, there needed to be a gradual expansion using these teams as field agents to maintain "quality control" as it were. Second, the TSA needed to start out, and needs to switch over to being completely transparent, and willing to fire/prosecute people over even small offences. I want to be clear, I'm not talking about firing anyone who "just" fails to catch granny Smith's knitting needles, I'm talking about much of the wrongdoing that's gone on. Third, there needed/needs to be a cadre of "TSA Doctors" who can examine individuals who currently need "ESS" procedures and give them some sort of clean bill of health, so to speak so they don't have to suffer regular embarassment at these hands.

Lastly, we need to remind people that the most effective method of terrorism prevention is us. When the "underwear bomber" tried to get his virgins, the passangers gave him an old fashioned beatdown, and we've done it more than once since 9/11. We are the most effective method of terrorism prevention, and we are probably the ones that made the terrorists even think of this new way of being idiots. Just as long as we don't get complacent, terrorists ability to hurt us will forever be limited.

I mean, people here do know that the scanners the the US government is using are made by a client of Michael Chertoff's company, right? The same Michael Chertoff who was the head of the Dept. of Homeland Security, right? You people know this, don't you? Well...what more needs to be said?

Follow the money and ALL questions are answered.

Wake up sheeple of America. Wake the f#%k up. It's not about security. It's about phony CRONY CAPITALISM and cashing in...in this case, cashing in on fear. You are all slaves and puppets. And the amusing part is most of you don't even know it!

Thanks Caligula, I had to check that out and sure enough you're right. He does make money from the scanners. Talk about conflict of interest, he should be arrested.

http://www.politicolnews.com/chertoff-lobbyists-and-airport-scanners/

dogs will detect this tactic, but to be sure and let the american public know their now slaves, we can expect a tsa flashlight so far up our asses that a beam of light will shoot from our mouth. i can see dogs, intel, and profiling the la la la crowd, but this crap with the tsa and the american public is not just stupid, it reeks of totalitarianism not even seen in hitlers germany. the tsa molestation has nothing to do with terrorism folks, its about letting you know whos boss, and to sit down and shut up as wall st and the mega banks loot your economy. otherwise the oligarchy risks being hung in the streets.

Joe -2768962:

There is some truth in your comments. I feel the same way at times about corporate America and our Feds. We are in a peculiar war against Terrorism, since 9/11, and many argue that our personal liberties are being trampled.

My only question to you would be, does America have skillful, organized and financed enemies abroad? Do you think that these enemies or terrorists would try to circumvent our security tactics to kill more flying Americans?

There are roughly 27000 domestic US flights per day. Should we let our guard down?

jm, sure we have enemies that have always and will always do this. but the TSAs public molestation is not intended to stop them, its just stupid. for the price of the TSA you can have an air marshall on every plane, dogs at every air port line, combined with an armed cockpit 911 would never have been successful. TSA is not designed to prevent terrorism, it is to establish a controlled police state in all public places to control the coming uprising when americans figure out that the oligarchy with the help of US lawmakers looted the baby boomer generation of all those 12 hour days of labor they put in their whole life. its that simple. the TSA will be at bus stations, train stations, proms, stadiums and street corners all over the USA. this is not about discouraging terrorists, its about discouraging americans. how is this a free country now? this is like east germany during the cold war. its time to abolish the TSA, support Ron Pauls bill to do so. getting rid of the TSA is not letting our guard down, putting K9s in lines at airports and armed law enforcement on planes is putting our guard up.

joe -2768962

"TSA is not designed to prevent terrorism..."

True, our military and intelligence has that job. The TSA protects the Nation's transportation systems to ensure freedom of movement for people and commerce.

"putting K9s in lines at airports and armed law enforcement on planes is putting our guard up."

A trained dog is not always effective and is quite expensive...around $10,000.00 each. TSA security screenings are much more efficient at moving 27000 domestic flights along, per day. Using dogs, en masse, would be expensive, create huge delays, false positives and other logistical matters.

Further armed law enforcement on planes is happening, but again the costs are extraordinary if this were to happen for all flights. Worse, an armed marshall cannot detect a surgically concealed bomb, nor prevent a remote detonation.

The TSA or whatever replacement is necessary will have to face the realities of today's threatening world and balance their security measures with respect for our cherished civil liberties. Not an easy mandate and guaranteed to get you and other's up in arms.

At least we still have freedom of speech and this will keep our security officials in check, hopefully.

$10,000 each, ok that replaces several tsa agents, with a handler, thats much more efficient. TSA only starts with airports, it then moves into all aspects of american life. the tsa is to intimidate the american public, nothing else. hands off my junk.

At least we still have freedom of speech and this will keep our security officials in check, hopefully.

go ahead and try to kill free speech, the founders of this nation told us what to do when that happens, and we will.

Not really. You have to pay for a the dog handler and the dog. The TSA is mandated to secure the nation's transportation, including air travel.

Advanced electronic detection systems may eliminate a pat-down. Is that permissible?

Finally, the terrorists created 9/11. Our government, whether you like it or not responded. In typical American fashion, amnesia sets in and people start complaining about the TSA.

I don't think the TSA is perfect. But since I knew someone who was murdered in the World Trade Centers, I welcome intelligent and well planned security implementations.

let me know when intelligent and well planned security implementations happen.

Since 9/11, have we lost a commercial airliner as a result of a terrorist attack?

No

Is the TSA working the way it was designed?

Yes

Can the TSA be improved?

Yes

They have a website. Send them your suggestions.

i suggest the TSA gets dissolved. use dogs and armed law enforcement on the planes, arm the cockpit. problem solved, get your filthy hands off toddlers junk. do you work for the government?

David, you ever seen mythbusters? They proved that a body on top of a grenade will absorb the shock, noone else gets hurt. And that will include the airplane. This wole "threat" is entirely invalid.

Joe:

No, I do not work for the government.

I do believe that your recommendations would increase our security risks and costs, regardless of your good intentions.

Prohibtion doesn't work:

Go read my post #17.8, before you continue spreading nonsense. You are unqualified to make such assertions. I would demand that the TSA be replaced if they relied upon the television show, Mythbusters, to counter terrorist threats.

And please fix the spelling in your moniker. PROHIBITION

JM California-- i respect your opinion. thankyou for realizing i have good intentions.

I joined the web for interesting and intelligent dialogue. Reading other points of view broaden our minds. I enjoyed our dialogue and your opinions. Also, I am always trying to improve my writing skills, and the Vine helps with this, too.

Thank you, as well.

oops, I meant to state, I joined Newsvine....

See, my grammatical errors continue. Work in progress!

Amen!

True dat! I have always said that these $10 an hour employees have been waiting for the opportunity to look in my bung hole. They will FINALLY get what they have been hoping for.

Just as outrageous a scare tactic as the fantasy of mutliple terrorists gaining control and actually learning to fly multiple airliners into American targets all at one time. How preposterous, where do people come up with these liberty sucking theories?

Corporatism is Fascism

Amen!

I tried to argue that in Federal court and was hanged!

You got it! Its amazing how our media likes to keep everyone in a constant state of fear with their spin..its all so they can make money.

If we werent a nation of wimps we wouldnt be scared so easily. You dont see the UK or Europe being scared so easily. They go right on with life even when the IRA was bombing them. They werent scared so easily. We got to stop listening to all this speculation. Its time the media start being more responsible in their reporting. We dont no if this is a fact or not....you just got some guy thinking this stuff up to sell papers. It hasnt happened yet and we dont even know if it is going to happen..

So far taking away our rights has been like taking candt from a baby. The Patriot Act that will never ever end. Illegal searches at airports. Even facebook is a gold mine for the CIA and FBI that even they couldn't dream of a better way to get the scoop on people who willing fork over their lifes story.

People don't even relize how much of their freedom they give over.

Glad I am old enough to remember an America I lived in when people were free.

Did any of you actually read and understand the story? They are talking about people flying into the US...not people flying in the US. In other words, these extra security precautions would only apply to airports in foreign countries.

Who would be the first to complain about security if a plane blows up in the air? My guess would be the people complaining about air line security.

By all means, keep dredging up 9-11.

Maybe we should just outlaw all incoming flights into the United States. Remember Pearl Harbor, folks!

elaine, obviously you weren't in the UK during at the height of the IRA bombings. Back then, in London, if you set something on the ground, bag, box, briefcase, etc., and walked more than a few feet away, police would be all over you. I don't know how it is now. I haven't been back since the late 80s.

3rd, just because we don't like something doesn't make it illegal. I absolutely hate the extremes airport screenings can take but ALL of the procedures have been challenged in court and have been determined to be legal. Of course, that doesn't mean they have to stay legal. If you want to try to change them you can challenge them in court yourself or you can begin contacting your federal senators and representatives. Get your friends and relatives to do it too.

I was always taught that whining about a problem did nothing. If you want to change something, come up with ideas how to change it. That's what I've been trying to do, searching for alternatives that are at least as effective as the current scanners and pat downs.

The people who cry about their poor little rights getting trampled on are the first ones that scream foul and complain as soon as sombody gets a bomb through security....you don't like 5-7 minutes of detectors and pat downs ball up and drive to your next destination other than that, shut it

When was the last time the TSA stopped a plot? Oh wait a minute, when was the first time?

Why would go through so much hassle? The muslim extremist are creating Anchor babies(Instant US Citizens) The foreigners flies into the country or walks across the Open Mexican border pops out a baby and takes it home. Now a US citizen who in 16 years will be able to legally fly into the US and start the war from inside. Source: lawandcitizen.org also the border is so open they will eventually just walk across carrying a one ton nuclear warhead and drive it to Houston or Dallas and kaboon...

Caroline-2412995,

The known National Security Threat, the over 23 Million Illegal Aliens currently in the US forced to cooperate with Terrorists by the Mexican Drug Lords (Russian Mob, Eastern European Mobs also). The Mexican Drug Lords business of smuggling, forged documents, identity theft, intelligence, human trafficking, weapons, money laundrying, safe locations in the US (Illegal Aliens residences), logistics support, transportation, etc. for Money.

Stated Goal of Terrorists defeat the Great Satan (US). Per current Islamic Laws and Holy Koran (Quran) that Call All Islamic Believers to War Against the Christians, Jews, Unbelievers for those Death Penalty Crimes Against Allah and His Prophet. Included are the Death Penalty for those Islamic Believers that refuse to participate, attempt to leave Islam or Collaborate with the Christians, Jews, Unbelievers. That is the way Islam is TODAY, so do not even attempt to say that the Christians and Jews did this kind of sh!t centuries ago, unless you are willing to say that Islam is stuck in the "Dark Ages", "Middle Ages" or B.C..

Stated (in writing on internet) Goal of Illegal Aliens the Defeat of States to form Aztlan. Not paying Taxes is part of the means to defeat the States, while to decrease their expenses getting any or all US Taxpayer paid Public Assistance including having their families with them. The Illegal Alien Advocacy Groups advocate No Employer Paperwork (no withholding (tax evasion a felony crime), no deductions for Medical, Dental, Vision, no deductions for Social security, no deductions for Medicare, etc..) as "Cash for Work Only", since Employer paper work enables ICE to figure which Businesses to get Search Warrants to Raid.

Ranman87 you are spot on.

Let's try and THINK for a moment people. If those hordes of supposed terrorists out there actually wanted to cause fear in America, they would be randomly placing bombs on trains and buses or in busy public places and that simply is not happening with any frequency.

@ Fred Guisse who says: "Just as outrageous a scare tactic as the fantasy of mutliple (sic) terrorists gaining control and actually learning to fly multiple airliners into American targets all at one time. How preposterous, where do people come up with these liberty sucking theories?"

What I am wondering Fred is how those terrorists managed to make three buildings to collapse into their own footprint in the same way as is achieved by a controlled demolition. The building that puzzles me the most in that regard was Building 7 of the World Trade Center, which wasn't even hit by an airplane, but still collapsed.

No steel skeleton building in history has ever collapsed in that way due to fire in the entire history of such construction, yet three such buildings all collapsed into their own footprint on the same day.

I'm not saying that terrorists didn't do it but I would sure like to know how they did manage to do it.

brian-1077790

The people who cry about their poor little rights getting trampled on are the first ones that scream foul and complain as soon as sombody gets a bomb through security....you don't like 5-7 minutes of detectors and pat downs ball up and drive to your next destination other than that, shut it

Actually, that's not true ... so you can "shut it".

Damn these 'terrorists' and their evil deeds!

***Waiting and trembling for next 'terror' event to justify the ever-increasing spending.***

The systematic destruction of its people done with 'military precision' coming to a theater near you.

I'm not saying that terrorists didn't do it but I would sure like to know how they did manage to do it.

Impossible to find out the truth without an INDEPENDENT investigation. The 9/11 commitee was hand selected by Bush's inner-circle. And don't even think of questioning their findings because,

"You're either for us, or against us"

"The people can always be brought
to the bidding of the leaders.
That is easy.

All you have to do is tell them
they are being attacked and denounce
the peacemakers for lack of patriotism
and exposing the country to danger.

It works the same in any country."

--Nazi Reich Mashall Hermann Goering
at the Nuremberg War Trials.

Jherek Carnelian,

I will explain.

First, prior to the 9/11 2001 Attacks, a multi million USDs project was initiated to make the World Trade Centers safer. This was done by removing the asbestos that was wrapped around the steel beams throughout the building. The original intent of the asbestos was in the event of an accident (an airliner hitting the World Trade Centers) the steel beams would withstand the explosion and fire.

Second, the "Terrorists" (aka Worldwide Islamic Military as supported by the Mandatory Islamic Tithes of 1.5 Billion Islamic Believers, nearly unlimited funds) learned the initial concepts of flying using Microsoft Flight Simulator, as used then by many "Ground Schools". They then attended Flying Schools. This is why after the 9/11 2001 Attacks Microsoft removed the capability to intentionally fly and aircraft into buildings. In Microsoft Flight Simulator you can add in any aircraft that you want to fly to familiarize yourself with the locations of all the controls and flight characteristics.

Third, In the case of the destruction of the World Trade Center Buildings, the normal flight configuration of most airlines is to only have enough fuel for that flight. This means the rest is air, this turns the aircraft fuel tanks into a very big bomb (FAA Crash Tests). The resulting explosion and fires have two effects, weaken the steel beams and ignite the aluminum of the aircraft fuselage. The explosion in a confined space (inside the building) has more effect than exploding outside the building. The aluminum burns just under the degrees Fahrenheit of magnesium, magnesium alloy is used in the British Thermal Arc Cutting Torch capable of cutting thru feet of hardened steel underwater in minutes, not being underwater cuts the amount of time down significantly (used to test a project that I was working on). Again the original design and "as built" had the required asbestos to prevent the steel beams from being damaged or weaken during an airline disaster striking the World Trade Center Towers. Additionally, the design of the World Trade Center used the new concept that incorporated the Elevator Shafts into the structural design, this contributed to the uniform structural failure after these Elevator Shafts got filled with aircraft fuel and caught on fire passing the fire from floor to floor (up (updraft) and down (downdraft)), the floors then collapsed inward and not outward (the thicker steel beams), resulting in your "Collapsing on their own footprint" (there was a PBS Documentary on how the tallest building are built using the Elevator Shafts as structural supports and the benefits and risks). The ignition of the aircraft aluminium fuselages is why almost nothing was found at the Pentagon, and at Pennsylvania.

Fourth, As far as the nearby buildings that were not directly hit by the aircraft. There is more to causing a structural failure than a direct hit. There is the resonance factor, just like earthquakes, that causes the ground to move beyond the range of the rigid support structures of the nearby buildings. These buildings were not build like the Japanese earthquake construction that allows the entire buildings supports to actually move with the ground. And remember that the resulting collapse of the World Trade Center also collapsed the underground parking and underground subway (under the rest of the buildings also) and also the underground water barriers (holding back hundreds of tons of water, everyone was lucky that these did not fail or even more area would have collapsed) were affected (leaking high pressure spray, think water jet cutting at a machine shop to cut steel plate).

All those "Conspiracy Theorists" (especially the so called "Engineers") remind me of one of my Brother's In Law (A Civil Engineer for years) that cannot even properly put in a door frame or hang a door. As there is Theoretical (design) and Real World. I went thru the same thing when I was a Project Manager (Real Construction, multiple millions of USDs at 38 locations at Europe) working with the US Army Corps of Engineers (Abrams Complex, Frankfurt Germany), I continually insisted on "Over Engineering" and they argued "But the Book says", so we compromised and built slightly over specification (the book), and they found out one year into the Project that I was correct when they had to spend millions on demolition of the failures, and then "over engineered" to my insisted specifications. You cannot have a door stick on a Ammunition Magazine locking you out when you are storing things of ultimate National Security importance in the Ammunition Magazines. The US Miiltary dicked up one of my hobbies again, as a Hobby of mine used to be design (Mechanical Engineering) and Drafting, then they turned my Hobby into my full time job, just like later my hobby was Open Water Diving (until attending Divers School), Skiing (now doing cross county here (Afghanistan to conduct US Military Asymmetric Mountain Warfare during the winters), mountain climbing (same as the skiing), motorcross motorcycles (now M1030s), horse riding (now pack horses and pack mules), sky diving (same after Airborne School), Marathons (Air Assault School), etc., so now I have no "hobbies".

The ignition of the aircraft aluminium fuselages is why almost nothing was found at the Pentagon, and at Pennsylvania.

That amazing how those two aircraft almost disappeared while other aircraft have pieces all over the place for investigators to determine the cause of the crash. If I remember correctly, Flight 93 had flown almost to Cleveland before turning back towards Washington so it didn't have a full tank to ignite the aluminum. Also there was no huge fire as you imply. Just saying.

Larry-2260635 - If I remember correctly, Flight 93 had flown almost to Cleveland before turning back towards Washington so it didn't have a full tank to ignite the aluminum. Also there was no huge fire as you imply. Just saying.

I think you misread my post it is the opposite of what you are thinking that I posted:

Third, In the case of the destruction of the World Trade Center Buildings, the normal flight configuration of most airlines is to only have enough fuel for that flight. This means the rest is air, this turns the aircraft fuel tanks into a very big bomb (FAA Crash Tests). The resulting explosion and fires have two effects, weaken the steel beams and ignite the aluminum of the aircraft fuselage.

Combustion requires fuel and oxygen (air), if the aircraft has a full tank the full tank is less likely to act like a bomb and explode (not enough oxygen (air)). The less fuel and the fuel tanks become bombs. Heat and pressure are required to ignite aluminium, higher the pressure (aircraft impacting into the ground or the concussive force from an explosion like the explosion of the fuel tanks) less heat required. This is why the electric fuel pumps completely immersed in gasoline in most vehicle gas tanks do not cause the fuel tank to become a bomb (no oxygen, air).

If you want to risk singed eye brows you can get a small metal container, fill it with gasoline, put the cover on, remotely ignite it (spark plug and a car battery with a lot of wire works). Stand far away and watch what happens (usually the cover pops off and the gasoline just burns). Then empty most of the gasoline, put the cover on, stand really far away, remotely ignite it, make sure you are behind something so you do not end up picking pieces of that metal container out of yourself.

I know about air fuel mixture being explosive but the planes that were hijacked by the terrorist on 9/11 had full fuel tanks because they were scheduled to fly non stop across country to California.

From Wikipedia:

Early on the morning of September 11, 2001, nineteen hijackers took control of four commercial airliners en route to San Francisco and Los Angeles from Boston, Newark, and Washington, D.C. Planes with long flights were intentionally selected for hijacking because they would be heavily fueled.

I never gave it much thought but my suspicions are that the fuel caught fire from the heat of the jet engines. The fuel is in the wings so when the plane impacted the building it blew open the tanks causing the fuel to be ignited by the jet engines exhaust. All the fuel did not burn instantly as in an explosion, rather it spilled inside the building and continued to burn. If the tanks had exploded, the building would probably not have collapse. If it were going to collapse from an explosion it would have done so immediately instead of burning for hours before collapsing.

Larry-2260635:

I never gave it much thought but my suspicions are that the fuel caught fire from the heat of the jet engines

The massive aircrafts were directed downward toward the buildings, exceeding design specifications for speed. Even if the engines were ice cold, the magnitude of the impact would cause an explosion igniting the fuel.

David is, in the highest probability, correct.

For this type of threat, why don't they just look for the fresh scars, stitches, bandages, etc. If the scanner detects things on the body, that will show up, yeah? I mean, how long can a persons body survive with a bomb implanted in them? Not long is my guess. So the surgery would have been performed shortly before an attempt. Plus, how many qualified doctors would perform this procedure? I don't care what their beliefs are, if they are good, they won't be performing these procedures. So, look for the guy who looks to have a bad infection as well. If it's not an infection he'll at least have a concerned look from the wires coming out of his bunghole.

explosive diarrhea!

Of course, as always, the objective is to deter (terrorize) westerners from flying via commercial airline so as to injure our economy.

That (objective) is already in sight given the foolish decisions (i.e. Iraq) taken by the last administration. One need look no further than the crash of 2008 for evidence.

Now, that same (GOP) party seeks to have us react by failing to: re-invigorate our infrastructure, move away from imported energy, pay our debts, honor our long-term obligations, and maintain our traditional strong diplomatic and (when necessary) military posture on the world stage.

They (GOPeaParty) would do this by substantially reducing the funding for our federal government as though the individual states can take its place. We all know, as did our founding fathers when they chose to UNITE the states, that is not possible.

It is time for the fortunate of this country to meet their patriotic obligations. At a time when the wealthy and corporations enjoy the lowest real tax rates in modern times, they still whine for yet less responsibility. If we are to remain a great nation, it must be paid for. No single group is in a better position to ante-up than the wealthy and highly profitable corporations.

Furthermore, all those from middle class down should receive a tax cut. That's not because those groups should not participate in the funding of America. Rather, it is because those tax cuts will (unlike with the rich) be spent for needed items. That spending will percolate up creating demand. And, that demand will create profits for (that's right) the wealthy. This (increased demand) will stimulate hiring and all of this will increase revenues for the federal, state, and local governments.

Everyone wins when the middle and lower earning groups pay less in taxes. The only group that wins when the wealthy and highly profitable corporations are taxed less are the wealthy. We need only look to the failed "trickle-down (aka VooDoo) economics" experiment for proof.

The wealthy should meet their patriotic obligations by giving back some of what they have taken from this nation. Doing otherwise is simply a capitulation to terrorism and an admission that they care more about their own personal opulence than the good of our nation.

I'm sorry, the party currently in power is the Democratic party. They are the ones pulling all of these strings right now. I guess some people were raised to blame Repubblicans for everything regardless

clark-861484.....

Apparently, you are one who blames the fire department merely because you find them amidst the flames trying to save our home.

YOU created this debacle. It is not a simple matter to repair. But, democrats WILL repair it. We won't do so by armed intimidation, deception, or the other tactics we must contend with. We will do this within our democratic process with or without your help.

Really, you should reconsider and join those of us who are trying to preserve our democracy rather than surrendering it (as you seem to prefer) to corporate fascists.

Franklin Roosevelt: Quote.....The first truth is that the liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic state itself. That, in its essence, is fascism—ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power.... The Growing Concentration of Economic Power. Statistics of the Bureau of Internal Revenue reveal the following amazing figures for 1935: "Ownership of corporate assets: Of all corporations reporting from every part of the Nation, one-tenth of 1 percent of them owned 52 percent of the assets of all of them.".....EndQuote

Who better than the President who struggled with and defeated the most powerful recent incarnations of fascism can recognize and describe it (fascism) ? You?

Wrong! Both parties are part of the same body. They both are controlled by the elite, and all the people who vote for these cancerous parties are not any better than the evil that is destroying America.

The TSA didn't create the need for strict security measures, the terrorists did. Only fools will stop thinking about potential threats and ways to improve security, post 9/11.

The enemies of the USA are still plotting horrendous attacks, regardless of the Obama administration.

NoLies01, I agree. While I'm sure there are some good people on either side, the majority of politicians are mostly interested in renewing their employment contract, aka, winning elections. This involves saying the things their potential voters want to hear and raising enough money to get the right number of votes they need. Getting $10 donations from average people doesn't get them elected. Getting millions from corporations or special interest groups does. So you wonder why the wealthy continue to get tax breaks and the middle class don't? It's all in the campaign balance sheets of all politicians. Beyond that, it's all about promises and convincing the rest of Americans that their vote will result in something good happening.

Ian Emdee - That (objective) is already in sight given the foolish decisions (i.e. Iraq) taken by the last administration. One need look no further than the crash of 2008 for evidence.

Wrong.

Iraq: US Military Training Teams from Germany to US Ally Iraq during the Iran Iraq Wars. Go research President Clinton's 1998 H.R.4655 "Overthrow of President Hussein" US Law. President Clinton's first use of the term Weapons of Mass Destruction (Chemical Weapons) in his 1998 State of the Union Address to demand the passage of H.R.4655 (as written into the US Law as part of the History of Iraq, this intelligence was approved by US Congress and later used for President Bush's 2002 Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution).

2011. King of Saudi Arabia, "President Obama gave Iraq to Iran on a Golden Platter". As to why the Allies of Fundamentalist Islamic Iran, the Chinese and Russian Federation got all the Iraqis Oil Contracts and the US and US Allies got NOTHING, this making Libyan Oil of Strategic Importance to the US European Allies.

The US Economy: The Removal of the Glass Steagall Acts. By removing the Glass Steagall Acts those Causes became Legal that Caused the 1907 Depression, 1929-1939 Great Depression, and the current 60-100 Trillion USD "Global Economic Crisis" consisting of the "Mortgage Crisis", "Wall Street Crisis", "Banking Crisis", "Financial Crisis", "Credit Crisis", etc.. The US Economy is NOT instant gratification, it took from 2000 to 2008 for the 60-100 Trillion USDs to build up. Just like the next "Crisis" of 54.6 Trillion USDs is building up since President Obama has not reinstated the Glass Steagall Acts. From 1907 to 1933 US Congress attempted harsh Regulation of the Causes and Failed (just like President Obama Financial Reform (almost identical to some of the failed previous attempts at Regulation)), so US Congress finally made the Causes completely Illegal, this and the US getting into WWII (US Employment) helped the US get out of the Great Depression after President FDR Nationalized All US Industry and Businesses, Suspended All US Labor Union Activities, Sold the War Materials to England that was manufactured at the Nationalized US Industry and Businesses (an Act of War) from 1939 to December 1941 (Before US entered WWII). The Glass Steagall Acts worked to prevent another Depression from 1933 to 2000. This is why we (US) are NOT in a Recession, the US is currently in another Depression (same Causes of previous Depressions), the indicator is the US Unemployment rate (all Categories) as 21% and rising, the Great Depression was 25% (all Categories) US Unemployment that wiped out the US Labor Unions of the Henry Ford Era and were taken over by "Italian Organized Crime" (as to why the US Labor Unions did NOT: start the 40 hour work week, minimum wage, work place safety, end child labor, Saturday and Sunday off, etc. as that was all from the recommendations of a US War Department Study to prevent Catestrophic Ammunition Plant/Factory Accidents as implemented by President FDR at all the Nationalized US Industry Nationwide, the US Labor Unions could do nothing since their Activities were suspended by President FDR.

Other factors:

The over 23 Million Illegal Aliens (loyal citizens of another nation) are occupying the jobs (low pay, no benefits, entry level, etc.) that were historically occupied by the Teenagers of US Citizens. Currently this category of Unemployment (US Teenagers) is double the US Unemployment (all categories, including those no longer receiving Unemployment) of 21% as 42%. This is while the Illegal Aliens are getting as much US Taxpayer paid Public Assistance as possible to decrease their own expenses by also having their families with them (living off US Public Assistance), this is all legal after the defeat of California Proposition 187 set the Legal Precedent Nationwide that Illegal Aliens (non US Citizens) must get US Taxpayer Public Assistance. This is while Illegal Aliens do not pay Taxes (no employer paperwork to avoid detection by ICE, therefore no withholding and more money for the Illegal Aliens paid in Cash Only.).

Ian Emdee - No single group is in a better position to ante-up than the wealthy and highly profitable corporations.

Nope. Just like when the Rich British Rock Stars fled England to avoid the English Taxes by becoming US Citizens. So sure repeat the same British mistakes and expect a different result.

Most that own a successful Business know that 70% or more of the profits pay for Employee Payroll and Benefits. So you are demanding 35% or more of Taxes. This does NOT include the State Taxes nor the State Business License Fees, Utilities, Business Equipment, Stock holder payments, rent or building leases, etc..

BASIC MATH (cognitive reasoning skills that you do not have): 70+35 =105. 100 % Profits - the 105 = -5. This means that Business is Bankrupt (Closed, -5) and all the employees were laid off. All the "Tax Breaks" in the World will not do sh!t for a Closed Business.

This is why US Businesses are: a. Laying off Workers., b. Not hiring because they cannot figure out what this administration is going to do, so they do not know the cost of each employee., c. Pay cuts., d. Decreasing Employee Benefits., e. Moving out of the US to Nations with Business Taxes of 6 to 9 percent., f. Automation, Lay off of Employees., g. etc..

A look at the world's new corporate tax havens

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/03/25/60minutes/main20046867.shtml?tag=currentVideoInfo;segmentTitle

The new tax havens March 27, 2011 4:15 PM
American companies are finding new overseas tax havens to legally protect some of their profits from the U.S. tax rate of 35 percent, among the highest in the world. Lesley Stahl reports.

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7360932n&tag=mncol;lst;1

If you can't keep up with the conversation... you better not try to join in at all. - Dr. Hannibal Lecter.

Ian Emdee - It is time for the fortunate of this country to meet their patriotic obligations.

Go join the US Military (Ground Combat Forces) as your god promised to reinstate the Selective Service during the Presidential Debates as "US Military Service is a Civic Duty" and "US Citizenship is not an Entitlement". With 92% of US Citizens never having Served in the US Military and only 1% are currently Serving in the US Military (pulling the weight of the 92%).

Ian Emdee - Now, that same (GOP) party seeks to have us react by failing to: re-invigorate our infrastructure,

Just how uninformed are you. The US Defense Budget Cuts, chopped the funds for the Long Term US Army Corps of Engineers Programs, the US Army Corps of Engineers are responsible for all the US Waterways. The previous Democrap (President Clinton) Defense Budget Cuts resulted in the US Army Corps of Engineers not having the money for the upgrades, restoration, maintenance of the Levees before Katrina as to why US Congress embarrassed themselves when they tried to grill the US Army Corps of Engineers Military Officer during the Katrina Hearing, as he just threw the Congressional Defense Budget Cuts right back at them. This is the same currently with the US Army Corps of Engineers not having the money for the dredging of streams, rivers, waterways, resulting in the current floods (the volume of water in the shallow steams and rivers has to go somewhere).

Ian Emdee - move away from imported energy,

In 2009, President Obama ended the Federal Subsidises for the successful Brazil Solution of Sugarcane to Ethanol (resulting in electricity, purified water, and fuel ethanol E-100) and the subsidizes for the replacement of the 100s of dangerous 1980s US Nuclear Power Plants with Generation III Modular Nuclear Power Plants with French style Nuclear Waste Material Recycling. These Federal Subsidies were then given to President Obama's major campaign contributors and constituents at Illinois, the Illinois Oil Refineries, and Illinois Corn Lobby (proven ineffective Corn to Ethanol per UN World Food Bank, US Department of Energy, US Department of Commerce, etc. as Sugarcane to Ethanol was the proven Alternative Energy Solution for Brazil since 1959 (and 1911 Hawai'i)). Onthe other MSN Technical (Scientific) articles we already discussed (no non facutal emotive opinions, just facts) everything about Alternative Energy in detail, including Generation IV ThoriumNuclear Power. Other Federal Subsidies were redirected from Alternative Energy to Vice President Biden's Pennsylvania Coal constiutents (responsible for most of the pollution currently in the US, especially Poisonous Coal Ash Ponds (size of Lakes)).

Ian Emdee - pay our debts,

I am really laughing at you now. How can the US pay 60-100 Trillion USDs. Especially, since President Obama refuses to stop the Cause of that Debt. So the next "Crisis" of 54.6 Trillion USDs will just be added to the 60-100 Trillion USDs. This is why the Chinese consider the US a bunch of dead beats that will never repay the money that the Chinese loaned to the US and refuse to loan anymore money to the US and US Allies. President Obama added to this with his "Discretionary Spending" (violation of his campaign promise to never use Discretionary Spending) during the start of US Military Actions at Libya, this is because he violated the 1973 War Powers Resolution (US Law) so US Congress did not create a US Law (with accompanying appropriations) to cover his arse like Congress did to cover President Clinton's arse with the US Law, 1998 H.R.4655 and to cover President Bush's arse 2002 Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution.

Ian Emdee -honor our long-term obligations,

President Obama implements the US Cut and Run Policy again from our US Allies at Iraq, and Afghanistan so that they can get massacred (again). Yep, yep, yep, do the same thing again and expect different results.

Ian Emdee - and maintain our traditional strong diplomatic and (when necessary) military posture on the world stage.

Uh huh. President Obama's Political Appointees Eikenberry and Holbrooke really a nice piece of work. As they mismanage the Billions of USDs (US Military and President Karzai have no access) so that when they were being investigated they started to scream to the International News Media "Karzai Corrupt" and therefore gave the Taliban the Strategic Asymmetric Warfare Goals of: a. Defeating the US Ally's Government., b. Gave Local Support to the Taliban., c. Gave National Support to the Taliban., d. Defeated the US National Will to Maintain the Fight., e. etc.. While being investigated they were also demanding to President Obama the firing of the investigator General McChrystal (this was long before the "This Administration does not know what it is doing"). After not before General McChrystal became the Commander of Afghanistan, President Obama's Political Appointees Eikenberry and Holbrooke negotiated with President Karzai (no US Military input) the current Rules of Engagement, as Cannot shoot until shot (so the Taliban, Al Quada, Hamas Foreign Fighters, Chechen Foreign Fighters, Pakistani Taliban, Army of Islam (Pakistan, not the Pakistani Army) shoot at you with the biggest things first (RPGs, antitank machineguns, etc.) so that you are dead and cannot return fire. This is why General McChrystal started to believe that Afghanistan became an unwinable War (after he started to command the rules were changed), other things that President Obama's August 2009 US Civilian Surge did proved that "This Administration did not know what it is doing" as stated by his staff. So to shut General McChystal up by getting his Letter of Resignation President Obama had to make a deal for General McChrystal to retire as a Four Star General instead of a Three Star Lieutenant General, as by going Public General McChrystal was exercising his US Congressional Appointed Duty of informing the US Public as a Last Appeal after the US Politicians refuse to listen to those matters that will cause the unnecessary deaths within his Command; this is the same as what happened with the previous Commander, General McKiernan, after President Obama etc. did not listen to his requests of more US Military Forces, after being relieved of Command President Obama grabbed General McKiernan's War Plan to Win Afghanistan and called it his (Obama) War Plan to Win Afghanistan, because President Obama has no previous US Military Experience nor Training he did not realize that without General McKiernan's Commander's Intent the General McKiernan's War Plan to Win Afghanistan that President Obama took as his own is worthless.

Then there is Libya. The Politicians institute Sanctions and Embargoes, do not allow enough time (months to years) for the Sanctions and Embargoes to take effect, then the next week start the Military Attacks.

The primary reason for Libya. Previously to get the previous Embargoes and Sanctions lifted so that Gaddaffi could sell Libyan Oil to the Europeans Gaddaffi became a Collaborator to the Christians, Jews, Unbelievers (a Islamic Law Death Penalty Crime) by: a. Giving up WMDs (given to US under Bush)., b. Gave up on Nuclear Power Plants., c. Cooperated with the CIA against Terrorists at Libya., d. Instituted Human Rights including Women's Rights (inflamed the Islamic Believers) praised by the UN and UA (African Union)., e. Actively had the Libyan Army before the insurrection go after Al Quada Saudi Arabia (AQ), Al Quada Islamic Maghreb (AQIM), the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group (LIFG), Al Quada Syria (AQS), Al Quada Yemen (AQY), Al Quada Arabian Peninsula (AQAP), Hezbollah, etc. at Libya. f. etc..

All of this proved beyond a reasonable doubt that Gaddaffi violated the current Islamic Laws and the Arab League of Nations and Fundamentalist Islamic Iran demanded to the UN, US, etc. that Gaddaffi must be Overthrown.

Arabic Al Jazeera (not the censored English) praised (before the insurrection) the Al Quada Saudi Arabia (AQ), Al Quada Islamic Maghreb (AQIM), Al Quada Syria (AQS), Al Quada Yemen (AQY), Al Quada Arabian Peninsula (AQAP), Hezbollah, for going to Libya to help the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group (LIFG, aka the Rebels) Overthrow Gaddaffi the Collaborator to the Christians, Jews, Unbelievers.

The Final mistake that Gaddaffi made was that at the beginning of 2011 he declared Libyan Oil Nationalization. Gaddaffi's Oil Nationalization would effectively take away control of the Libyan Oil from BP (Britain), Total, Elf (France), Eni (Italy), OMV (Austria), Statoil (Norway), etc.. So instead of these European Oil Corporations hiring cheap Libyan Labor then keeping all the Profits, with Gaddaffi's Resource Nationalization, they would get almost nothing and the majority of the profits would remain in Libya. So these Rich Oil Corporations lobbied their Politicians demanding their Militaries Overthrow of Gaddaffi to stop his Libyan Oil Nationalization. So in anticipation of their Governments Military Actions to Overthrow Gaddaffi to stop his Resource Nationalization, Oil Corporation "Non essential" personnel were evacuated February 21, 2011.

There is a lot more.

Ian Emdee - Rather, it is because those tax cuts will (unlike with the rich) be spent for needed items. That spending will percolate up creating demand.

Here we go again the Socialist Demoncrap Redistribution of Wealth Theory that failed during the Great Depression, and prolonged the Great Depression for years (people literally starving to death).

Maybe if you got that Demoncrap, Repugnant, In Depends (contents of Adult Diapers) SH!T out of your eyes then you could do the Research (unless you are lazy and obese). By following the money, factcheck.org does not count as valid information nor facts.

Really? Seriously?,

Here is a future reference (links) for you. (post#6.6).

Sorry, Politicians' Dance Cards Are Full

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/02/21/ftn/main6228685.shtml?tag=cbsnewsTwoColUpperPromoArea
The Price Tag Of Politics

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=6228712n&tag=related;photovideo

This is why what needs to be done is eliminate the Cause, the need for US Politicians to raise Billions in Campaign Contributions. This is first done by the US Congressional Representatives being selected at Random like Jury Duty (as a Civic Duty). Paid as the National Average of "Middle Class". Term Limits. Benefits like US Military that end upon successful completion of Duty. Live at less expensive Virginia not D.C. in a average "Middle Class" home owned by their State. They are responsible for their own Transportation to and from work (at D.C.). Eventually, like electronic banking "One for One" (One US Citizen (verified) On Vote) on all matters. (posted the rest of the details on other Newsvine Forums (Topics).

Very detailed post David, thank you. This makes much more realistic sense than what the media is trying to pull.

David- I'm giving you a thumbs up just for quoting Hannibal Lecter!

I think profiling could be effective but what happens every time someone in power suggests it? Lots of people are in favor of profiling until they fall into the group being profiled, then their constitutional rights are being violated.

So what about Muslims traveling from nations that are not predominately Muslim, such as the UK or Germany or Norway or Sweden or...you get the idea?

What about the converts right here in America? With the absence of christian values in todays America we are ripe with those who have no purpose but to exist. Religion in any form give people a sence of purpose. Wouldn't you conclude that someone can *find religion* in allah as easily as any others?

skilife, one name for you: Adam Gadahn

What about France? They have a huge Moslem population.

skilife - what makes you think banning Muslims will keep us safe? What about Timothy McVeigh? He wasn't Muslim. Yet he bombed a building and killed innocent people.

Are you really that narrow minded???

I spent last summer all throughout the Middle East, and while, as strong independent woman, I dislike the religion and the cultural practices of how they treat women, I still found friendly hospitable people in Muslim country after Muslim country. Of course now, I would not suggest a vacation, though according to travelers in the area now, the tourists sites are still safe and protected (you can read about people's travels there on the backpacker's website Lonely Planet).

In Syria, you couldn't walk a block without something saying, "You are welcomed to Syria!" Nope they were not trying to sell you anything, they knew no other English, but even though they were suffering under their government, even though the politics say they hate us, the true and amazing thing I've found in all my travels the world over, is that no matter what the media or the governments say, people are for the most part welcoming to guests in their country. Yes, even the French, I went there during the heights of our Freedom Toast and Freedom Fries war of words between our two cultures and I was treated warmly (including wait staff in Paris and train officials).

If anything travel is a great way to act as an ambassador for our country and if people can see tourists as an easier and safer way to make a living, there will certainly be less and less Al Qaeda recruits. I just get annoyed with people lumping all Middle Easterners as terrorists, at my school, University of Washington, we have a good size Iranian population, and most of them are atheists (as are most young Iranians even back home), not one girl wears a scarf, and all of them hate their government. Also, there was our family friend who was Christian Lebanese and fought a bloody civil war for the rights of his people, so before you judge a person based on how they look or what country their from, you might want to remember not all Middle Easterners are our enemy.

seattle_mary:

In the thirties and forties, not all Germans were Nazis. Many Germans were our friends. Yet over 50 million lives were lost during WW2. You undertook serious risks by exploring. You were lucky to come home with your head still attached.

JM,

No, I wasn't "lucky to come home with my head still attached," if you read my post you would of seen that, while yes I do not dispute there is percent of the governments and the peoples that want to destroy the West and there are very dangerous areas, I certainly didn't venture into places like the Sunni Triangle, there is a very large and healthy tourist aspect to the Middle East (please go and read the forums at places like Lonely Planet and realize that tons of tourists, mainly Europeans and Australians safely visit the region every year at least before this 'Arab Spring').

While in Syria (again, I'm not recommending a visit right now, but as of last summer it was wonderful), I went to an Eastern Orthodox Church and asked how it was being a Christian in a Muslim country and if they've ever had problems, to which the Priest and an older groundskeeper said that religious differences were never a problem in the country (now, that is a rarity I grant you, but it goes to show that this region of the world is not all men going jihad on infidels).

Countries like Jordan, love their tourists and the big bucks they drop to see Petra and Wadi Rum (both amazing and worth every JD it costs) and in Egypt, while the general Police might be corrupt and horrible, the Tourist Police guard foreigners like crazy. Of course there are the occasional crazy gun men attacks, but its been years and when it happens the authorities commit massive human atrocities tracking down those responsible.

Also, I'm American, I drive a car, I ride a motorcycle, I scuba dive, and I love riding my bike, all these habits are statistically a lot more dangerous then my vacation to the Middle East. After all how many tourists were killed in the Middle East last year, versus the roughly 10,000 people who die every year due to drunk drivers?

"No, I wasn't "lucky to come home with my head still attached"

You were unlucky? Do you prefer the alternative?

Just kidding!

I think you did take on additional risk, but glad you came back whole and having experienced, first hand, a different culture.

JM,

Granted, my parents were more worried about this trip versus say my vacations to Japan or Australia, but I guess my overly convoluted and poorly executed argument is against the OP who thought we should just close down all traffic to that region.

Also, these posts bleed into my tired old argument against this new reincarnation of the TSA and the ridicules waste of money and resources that we pour into 'making flying safe'. After all the reality of our country is that we have a much higher chance of being killed by a drunk driver then a terrorist, but we would never consider mandatory breathalyzers for cars, even though they would have a much higher chance of actually saving lives (even if the technology is expensive, problem plagued and invasion of our rights and property), but too many of us are buying into the false security of body scans or enhanced pat downs.

And yes, I did laugh when I read your first line, you got me :)

JM California -What about France? They have a huge Moslem population.

And they are suffering for that:

'Islamization' of Paris a Warning to the West

http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/world/2010/August/Islamization-of-Paris-a-Warning-to-the-West/

seattle_mary,

Instead of "Just Visiting" if you lived with the locals. 2002 lived with the Kurdistanis, US College Farsi, immersion living with the Kurdistanis (Kurdish Form of Farsi). Previously at US Language Arabic, immersion with Egyptian Family while going to College at Egypt (language Arabic), afterwards College at Egypt Islam (in Arabic). Also living with the Iraqis. Ordered not to wear a uniform and grew my hair long, a beard and mustache.

Currently, (years of consecutive tours) living with the Afghans learning Pashtu and Dari (up here in the Pamir Mountains)(recalled over and over again to Active Duty for "Matters of National Security". Been involved with the Middle East as a US Military Officer since the 1980s US Military Training Teams from Germany to US Ally Iraq during the Iran Iraq Wars and redeployed to Pakistan/Afghanistan during the USSR 40th Army Occupation.

"Peacetime" "visits" (longer than a month each) to Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Jordan, Libya (WMD Verifications Gaddaffi gave all WMDs to US), Darfur (UN Humanitarian Mission), Turkey (for Mountain Warfare refresher "Training", actually fighting against the Kurdistanis PKK, HPG, KGK), Syria, Pakistan, Yemen, Bahrain, Indonesia (diplomatic immunity), Phillipines (US Military Assistance Visit), etc. in most cases living with the locals (not at a tourist secure hotel).

The perpective of these nations quickly changes when you get outside of the secure tourist traps, know the language, and "blend in".

JM California - In the thirties and forties, not all Germans were Nazis.

How about watching this movie, "Good", 2008. Or like me living at Germany (on the "economy" with the Germans) and interviewed those that survived WWII (they can tell you the conditions before WWII (Germany's Great Depression) and what the National Socialist German Workers Party (a Political Labor Union) meant to the average German.). What the movie, Good, 2008, depicts is what I found out in my Interviews of Germans.

david-475776

Very impressive experience and service!

Thanks for sharing and I definitely will watch that movie. I have always been the curious type and have talked with many older Germans. One of my friends was an Austrian swimmer in the 1936 Nuremberg Olympics. She had a very unique perspective on WW2, to say the least.

JM California,

Our "Home Station" was Germany while being deployed to the Middle East.

I used to sit in the Gasthauses and talk with the Germans over a few Beers (quite a few) when not deployed to the Middle East (assigned to the Intermediate Range Nuclear Forces (INF)). At the town that I used to work near were most of the intact underground facilities of WWII that supplied the Siegfried Line. Most of the "Locals" used to work in them.

Prior to Vietnam, I was a US Military Brat, my Father was a Helicopter Pilot (three tours Vietnam), afterwards he was stationed at Germany so I ended up graduating High School (Deutsche Gymnasium) at Germany, then I received my Selective Service Card and ended up as a LRRP/Ranger at Plei Can (Ho Chi Minh Trail) calling in Airstrikes towards the end of Vietnam so that the majority of the US Military Convenational Warfare Forces could "Retrograde" (withdraw).

Instead of staying in I went into Reserves and attended College (and ROTC, starting in my Junior year since I was Prior Military Service). After College I was Commissioned as a US Military Officer (O-1) eventually ending up back in US Military Asymmetric Warfare (someone found out that I was previously a LRRP/Ranger) and being trained up way beyond LRRP/Ranger (very painful). Ironically, some of the Helicopter Pilots that my father trained as an Instructor Pilot saved my LRRP/Ranger Patrols on numerous occassions at Vietnam, every so often I run into some of them as CW5s of the 160th SOAR here (Afghanistan, they are part of my Direct Support).

david 475776,

Wow. It's amazing to read about your foreign experience, and also about your father. Being a "brat" in a military family offered unique places to live.

Your military upbringing on foreign lands is not typical for Americans at home. Do you share similar views with average Americans regarding our current foreign problems?

Or is America out of touch? I ask this because it seems to me that terrorists could very easily implant an explosive device in a willing fanatic. Yet, even with 9/11 and many other terrorist atrocities, people are complaining that we ought to let down our guard, or stop improving security measures. I still think the threat remains.

Yeah Michael, what if you have a scar, the TSA gonna rip you open to take a peek?

Michael-412302

So what will the TSA do now? Ask everyone to strip naked so they can look for evidence of a recent surgery?

NO! I said I have a device that will reveal components inside a person without any harm. You can expect your privacy out the window.

What is this device? Do tell.

Michael-412302 - So what will the TSA do now? Ask everyone to strip naked so they can look for evidence of a recent surgery?

Why strip, just show up naked. Fly naked everyone. ROTFLMAO.

They need to have a machine like on that Arnold Swatzenegger movie, Total Recall. That shows him running thru the machine as a skeleton.

Oh yeah, that movie. Arnold shoots his wife in the head and says "consider that a divorce", then the other famous line, "see you at the party Victor!"

I'll volunteer to do the feel ups, er, inspections (certain age females only). While also doing the female cavity inspections (not with my hands and fingers).

david-475776

But all the hot women will avoid standing in line for you because you'll be salivating the whole time with the creepiest look on your face.

Its ridiculous, about 6,000 people lost their lives on 9/11 but every year we have around 10,000 drunk driving fatalities and while people have no problems with the loss of privacy, dignity, time spent going through security, or the added money both on travelers and on every tax payer (TSA and those machines are subsidized by our tax dollars), the idea of installing breathalyzers in every car (an equally expensive, hassle filled, highly flawed technology) would be unimaginable, and rightly so.

Though, like you said, give people the illusion of safety from some vague and far off threat (forgive the hyperbole) and they'll flock to it with no questions asked.

I think mostly children and women. Large and overweight people are primary suspect so they will be examined carefully at every ...

At least they still have a Space Program, we (US) have to rely on the Russian Federation to get to and from the Space Station. The current NASA layoffs at Florida, no replacement to the Space Shuttles.

Addtionally, they bought North Korean ICBMs that were shipped thru Bejing China 2010.

In 2011, they successfully tested IRBMs, three stages solid fuel (Instant Launch) similar to the Pershing II with another stage (longer range) and no range limiter. Believed to be using a Chinese manufacturered (stolen US Technology) GPS Guidance Navigation and Control (GNC).

2011 The Russian Federation is scared enough of the Iranians to have placed Ground Based Anti Ballastic Missile Batteries (S-400s, two per TEL) in those Nations that provide the Russian Federation with Oil.

Add another 4 hr. for interrogation room.

good grief - and there goes our 4th amendment or what's left of it

I have stopped flying. I know being safe is on top of the list however adding all those extra hours on to your already long flight. Someone out there develope a room for passengers to pass through and if they have explosives inside the body will blow them up so the rest of us can proceed with our plans. This should not be too difficult.

Kirk-1020827

You do not mean that! FBI in NC did catch a guy who was contemplating such idea and sent him back to his native country.

What about all of the major airports around the world with flights heading to and from the US...My point is this is a joke...this whole thing has as much credibility as the war on drugs - We arrested Aldofo Collero {SIC} in San Francisco with the biggest shipment of cocaine ever recorded...he walked and we later found out why ...Iran Contra

Exactly Kirk, The US gov. is nothing but a joke. These people are scared like little girls in preschool. They need big brother gov to hold their hand and check their underwear for them, and fondly their daughters in public view for the enjoyment of the rich government workers, while the rest of the US economy sinks.

RIP The Truth America, for we now live in a Fascism country.

The batteries on those Stinger Missiles went dead a long time ago. They are now just useless paperweights. and are irreplaceable.

Kirk-1020827:

"My point is this is a joke...this whole thing has as much credibility as the war on drugs

NoLies01

"These people are scared like little girls in preschool."

Both of you must have been in a whole or been born after September 11, 2001.

This is not a joke. Ask the families of those killed on 9/11 if they feel that being fearful is unwarranted.

A successful explosion on board another US airline could cripple the world's economy and eliminate what's left of our personal liberties. Implanting a small explosive device within a suicidal maniac is a perfect terrorist crime, similar to the simplicity of 9/11. It is terrifying to realize that such an action is probable, easy to conceal and is very very dangerous.

Sorry JM,

You should just hide in the closet with your family and tell them you are scared. You deserve NO FREEDOM. Just because you actually believe what the Military Industrial Complex says, does not make it right for the rest to succumb to this Gov. tyranny. Please do yourself a favor and look up: "Perception Management". This is what the MIC uses on the sheep to control them.

NoLies01:

Sorry, I'm not scared. I don't have amnesia, either.

Go fly yourself to Pakistan, Afghanistan or other similar infested region and see how long you last.

Some people, like myself, would rather die defending freedom, than be sitting targets because of others naivete, like yourself.

You have NO, I repeat NO clue what FREEDOM is. At least my children will speak of me as a freedom fighter when I'm gone, unlike you, letting your kids get fondled! What will they say about their courageous daddy? "daddy said its alright for strangers to touch my tang!"

Really?

Perhaps we disagree on the definition of freedom, which is never really absolute. Sad to report to you that even freedom has it's limits. Reality sucks, doesn't it?

If a doctor conducts a routine physical, is that fondling? If a trained TSA agent, who is mandated to search for explosives, weapons, box cutters or other dangerous objects, selects someone for a body search, is that fondling? The intent, in both cases are obvious, but not to you.

You have shown that your pea brain is fried. How are you going to compare those two. Really. Did you not finish school, or did you hit your head? Grow up! Your an adult right? What, you need a Gov to hold your hand? Please.....

Both incidences involve bodily contact. Both incidences are an inconvenience. Both incidences could save your life. Both are voluntary, too. Neither is considered a crime of fondling.

You don't have to fly. You don't have to get a physical.

Before you comment, try to respond with something intelligible, rather than making prepubescent personal attacks. Is that possible?

Kirk-1020827 - we provided Afghan freedom fighters with countless thousands of Stinger missiles

Once again those that were not participants nor served in the US Military (92% US Citizens never served in the US Military).

When we (not you) were deployed as US Military Training Teams from Germany to Pakistan/Afghanistan during the USSR 40th Army Occupation as demanded by Senator Charles Wilson Democrat Texas:

a. Millions of Pro USSR Afghans fled into Fundamentalist Islamic Iran (supported by the USSR) to avoid getting massacred by the USSR, as the USSR did not care what Afghans they were killing during the USSR Total Conventional Warfare (use of Carpet Bombing, leveling villages and massacring all inhabitants, chemical warfare (agent purple, mustard gas, poisoning water wells, etc.), millions of area denial weapons (Land mines), air dropped foil wrapped "Candy" explosives (to blow off fingers and hands when unwrapped), tank formations to level towns and villages, etc..

b. We trained the 1980s Pro US Afghan Muhajeen to fight the USSR 40th Army. After Training we would accompany them into combat to make on the spot corrections to our training and to modify our training based on what we observed. This is the same as we did at US Ally Iraq during the Iran Iraq Wars.

c. The Stinger Missiles were ineffective, as the USSR already knew about the Indentification Friend or Foe (IFF) and equipped their aircraft and helicopters with ECM (Electronic Counter Measures) Pods that broadcasted the Friendly Signal that made it so that the Stinger Missile could not fire. It was AFTER the US Cut and Run that the bypass switch to the IFF was installed. This was one of the aw sh!t moments while standing in the open (to avoid reflective blast from the stinger missile launch from burning you to a crisp, same with behind you as "back blast") as either SU-25s or Hind Attack Helicopters were coming straight at you and the f**king IFF would not let you launch. So we would literally throw ourselves off the reverse ridge just to escape the bombs, missiles, machineguns and cannons of the SU-25s and Hind Helicopters from ripping us to shreds.

d. Because of c. above, we had to teach the Pro US Afghan Muhajeen to conduct Raids of the USSR Munitions Depots to get their (USSR) SA-7s (no IFF), to shoot down their own (USSR) aircraft and helicopters. And yes, we accompanied them during the Raids also. We shipped the Stinger Missiles back to the US.

e. After the Pro US Afghan Muhajeen defeated the USSR 40th Army Occupation, instead of the US rebuilding the "Little America" of the 1960s-1970s that Afghanistan once was the US Cut and Ran, abandoning the 1980s Pro US Afghan Muhajeen with a devastated Nation. With most of the 1980s Pro US Afghan Muhajeen killed off during the USSR 40th Army Occupation, and minimal weapons, ammunition, funds left (no further support from the US). We (US Military Training Teams from Germany) are Ordered to leave and return back to Germany.

f. The Pro USSR Afghans return from Fundamentalist Islamic Iran and become the 1990s Fundamentalist Islamic Taliban. The 1990s Fundamentalist Islamic Taliban as supported by Fundmentalist Islamic Iran (supported by the USSR) easily massacre all the 1980s Pro US Afghan Muhajeen (abandoned by the US) as Collaborators to the Christians, Jews, Unbelievers (everyone else including atheists, as to why they destroyed the ancient Giant Carved in Stone Buddhas) a Death Penalty Crime of "Die a Horrible Murdering".

g. The 1990s Fundamentalist Islamic Taliban establish their Government, and chase the few remaining 1980s Pro US Afghan Muhajeen into Pakistan and massacred them there also. The 1990s Fundamentalist Islamic Taliban then establish the Pakistani Taliban and take over those areas that we trained the 1980s Pro US Afghan Muhajeen at.

h. Al Quada and Osama Bin Laden (OBL) bomb the World Trade Centers, 1993. The Fundamentalist Islamic Taliban give Al Quada and OBL sanctuary under Islamic Laws. US Military Asymmetric Warfare Teams shadow OBL from Saudi Arabia and continuely request authorization to terminate OBL. President and White House recite the US No Assassination Policy, authorization denied.

i. OBL and Al Quada, as supported by the Fundamentalist Islamic Taliban Government, plan the 9/11 2001 Attacks as the 1993 World Trade Center Bombing was considered a failure since it did not gain enough International recognition of Al Quada and OBL.

j. Just after 9/11 2001, we are sent to Afghanistan to attack the Fundamentalist Islamic Taliban Government's Infrastructure, seize and secure locations for the arrival of the US Military Conventional Warfare Forces.

k. 2002, Redeployment to Iraq to live with the Kurdistanis to gain their trust, organize and equip them to fight the Iraqis Military, Strategic Goal Kurdistanis seize and secure the Northern Iraqis Oil Fields. To make the Iraqis Military Command think that the Main US Attack will come thru US Ally Turkey and not from Kuwait, nor Saudi Arabia. So that the Iraqis Military Command deploys their Main Iraqis Military Forces North of Baghdad. The USAF then drops non nuclear E-Bombs to destroy all Iraqis Electronics especially the Iraqis Military Communications so that the Iraqis Military cannot form a cohesive defense nor redeploy their Main Iraqis Military Force to the South. During these actions we (two Companies of US Military Asymmetric Warfare Forces and a couple of Kurdistanis Companies) engaged and destroyed 6 Full Strength Iraqis Divisions (Armor and Mechanized Infantry) and the 2 Full Strength Iraqis Divisons held in reserve. This is why the Main US Military Conventional Warfare Forces coming from Kuwait and Saudi Arabia met almost no opposition.

l. We return to Germany, and attend the Deutsche Bundeswehr Commando School (Mountain
Warfare refresher training at the Zugspitze, most of us already attended the US Military Mountain Warfare School (winter phase and summer phase)). We get refresher training with the Turkish Military at Southern Turkey fighting the Kurdistanis PKK, HPG, KGK.

m. We are redeployed to Afghanistan to conduct US Military Asymmetric Mountain Warfare. So here we are for years of consecutive tours.

n. Between all the deployments we also were at those locations listed at 8.11.(all of it seems like a few second blur now a days) also attending schools to remain competitive for promotion (including Post Graduate College degrees). CEL (Civilian Education Level) and MEL (Military Education Level) are important for promotions "Ahead of Peers".

o. So now we (US) are going to abandon our US Allies again (letters f. and g. above). In two years or less now, My men, women and myself will be too old to be recalled anymore to Active Duty for "Matters of National Security", so it will be your turn "Civic Duty". Start training now, for your return to Afghanistan (again) and Iraq (again).

unless you have a bomb up your azz

John, got talk to the K9 folks at your police dept. Dogs get tired and quit working. Sometimes they will alert just to get their reward. Full dog screening at airports would take hundreds, if not thousands of highly trained and very expensive dogs. We don't have the capability to train that many bomb sniffers.

Better than paying the TSA to molest flyers.

rc-3145422

unless you have a bomb up your azz

This is the funniest comment I've read on the vine thus far.

what_the_81 - rc-3145422 unless you have a bomb up your azz This is the funniest comment I've read on the vine thus far.

I think he was serious.

Al Qaeda Bombers Learn from Drug Smugglers

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/09/28/eveningnews/main5347847.shtml?tag=pop

tiredofhypocrites-794827

John, got talk to the K9 folks at your police dept. Dogs get tired and quit working.

Really? I once saw a dateline episode about a missing girl and they called in a bloodhound to trace her. The bloodhound was walking and walking for many miles and was on the verge of passing out due to not wanting to eat or drink water. The handler felt really worried and made the dog end the search. They ended up finding the child's body buried just a 1 block further down the road.

Don't write off how committed dogs can be with their jobs!

Some of us would rather not get sniffed by dogs either.

Besides, the report says they are surgically implanting the bombs not sticking them where the sun don't shine. Dogs won't be able to find them. But, as someone else said, the bomb would be inneffective because the body of the terrorist would absorb the impact of the explosion. Ever watch Mythbusters? They tested it, a soldier jumping on a grenade to save others around him, his body takes the blast, so it kills him, but noone around him is hurt. Same thing here. They say its a pacemaker size explosive? Yup, again, watch mythbusters, you'll see how big a blast a pace maker size amount of c4 does, very small. This story is complete BS

Hold your horses, Prohibtion doesn't work:

The MythBusters obtained a refrigerator and placed it in the middle of a group of the dummies. They then placed a grenade inside it and detonated it. The refrigerator was literally turned into a giant fragmentation grenade as also happened in the original episode. Unlike the episode, however, where the fridge absorbed the explosive force enough to leave bystanders unharmed, the flying debris from the Mythbusters' test destroyed the dummies immediately in front and behind of the refrigerator, though standing to the sides seemed safe. The MythBusters agreed that putting a grenade in the refrigerator was not a good idea.

Note that neither grenade tests were not done on a pressurized aircraft and the explosives were different.

Also, refrigerator was not pressurized to approximately 7000 feet, as is the average commercial airliner. Regardless, there was flying shrapnel because the blast was momentarily contained, similar to what likely would occur within an aluminum tube, like an airplane.

Grenades use Composition B, not C-4, which is Composition C, and has considerably greater force. Probably less than 1 1/2 pounds would create a catastrophe on an airplane.

Because of its stability and sheer destructive power, C-4 has attracted the attention of terrorists and guerilla fighters all over the world. A small amount of C-4 can do a lot of damage, and it's fairly easy to smuggle the explosive. The U.S. military is the primary manufacturer of C-4, and it tightly guards its supply, but there are a number of other sources for similar explosive material (including Iran, which has a history of conflict with the United States). As long as it is readily accessible, C-4 will continue to be a primary weapon in the terrorist arsenal.

I never saw the one with a refridgerator, I meant the one where they were talking about an soldier threw his body on top of the grenade to diffuse the blast, and it did.

h t t p://dsc.discovery.com/videos/mythbusters-grenades-and-guts.html

They also tested the myth of explosive decompression and its just that, a myth.

h t t p://dsc.discovery.com/videos/mythbusters-explosive-decompression-minimyth.html

So, yeah, that means the terrorist will have a few body parts scattered around the plane, but that will be about the worst of it, then even if, somehow it managed to make a small hole in the plane, anyone not near it will not be affected, and anyone a few feet away will be fine in their seat belts.

Also, 1.5 lbs of c4 is considerably larger than a pacemaker! That much would make it too difficult to smuggle inside their body surgically.

I am talking about both episodes that tested grenades. You cannot use these experiments to extrapolate the concussive forces because the explosives where completely different as was the environment.

One and a half pounds of C-4 is smaller than a bowel movement. It can be easily implanted within a fanatic's belly, who is determined to kill everyone and himself.

An explosion is an explosion, and a body will still absorb most of the blast for it to do any damage. And again, they tested the myth of explosive decompression, it's complete BS, so it doesn't matter if the explosion is in an airplane's pressurized cabin, it still only makes a small hole, but it doesn't rip the airplane in half. It takes way more c4 to do that than they could hide. Your just trying to make these illogical claims seem legitamate, what are you working for the TSA or the government, trying to spread the fear that continues to make us into a police-state? Here you go people, this article is perfect for JM here:

h t t p://worldblog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/07/08/7019081-is-high-security-backfiring-in-us

An explosion is an explosion, and a body will still absorb most of the blast for it to do any damage.

In that case, I guess a firecracker is no different than a grenade, C-4 or a nuclear weapon. Just throw your body over it. Voila! You can say anything you want to...it just isn't that smart.

Try focusing on what I'm saying, not who I am or who I work for. Do a little research. Your references to Mythbusters are a joke.

Okay, so, how about basic physics? fire needs three things: fuel, oxygen, and heat(or ignition) source.

Inside the body, the device won't be able to pull in the oxygen it needs to explode, therefore, it will pop and fizzle out. So much for your bomb thats supposed to put fear in everyones hearts.

Did you spend the last 4 days to come up with that? Ever heard of a detonator?

If you don't have the knowledge or capacity to understand the potential threat, just leave it. Eternal bliss, created by a lack of knowledge is wonderful, isn't it?

Like I said a pop, then it fizzles, the detonator might get triggered, but without being able to draw in the required oxygen for the explosion from the bomb, there won't be one.

And obviously you're the only one that's trying to perpetuate the imaginary "potential threat" here. There is none, because it just won't work. Science is against you on this one.

It is a joke and the joke is on us - we have already surrended a good part of our 4th amendment...maybe we should give up our entire bill of rights...as some in the new administration have stated - the bill of rights goes to far

Most likely it would be a keistered bomb. Not a surgical implant.

Please name one instance when one of your "rights" was violated. Just one.

Tom - getting on airplane and havingmy body examined without a warrant - tapping phone calls without a warrant - are you serious? do you really want me to go on - Or have you not heard that Homeland Security has purchased over 300 vans equipped with x-ray scanners so now they can drive up to your home and see everything inside...without a warrant - this is how it starts and go back to Germany in the 1930s and watch the progression and tell if you don't see striking similarities

tom8896

You must have never flown a plane since 9/11 if you've never felt violated by big brother. But I guess you're one of those people that listen and believe whatever the govt tells you is for your benefit. Fear is big money, always has been and always will, as soon as you realize that, you'll be able to pull down the wool over your eyes.

Tom-2905013

"This is completely ridiculous. A terrorist must find a person who is huge so the bomb will not protrude through the belly. Then using surgery, implant a bomb without causing the person to die from the surgery"

A bomb, the size of a pacemaker, could easily take down an aircraft. Pacemakers are inserted everyday in slim people, as an out-patient procedure. It is likely that a terrorist that is fanatically determined to kill himself and others will not care about post-op infections and would likely not die from complications before flying. There would be a significant window of opportunity to commit the crime.

Americans will give up many of their rights...just don't ask them to give up their 250 channels and remote control...we do that - we will have an all out revolution

Then call your cable company, tell them your moving to Iraq since its so much safer and the governments hold isnt nearly as apparent in the middle of a desert. If you dont like it .....LEAVE!

Yep - and we have not been hit - a terrorist could hit a small border town and kill a number of people and never get caught...I guess I don't understand what they are waiting for unless they really don't exists to the degree our government and media has led us to believe

Hey tom,

I hope you have fun watching your daughter get fondled in front of you and the public. And when she ask why daddy?, You say because you are a scared sheep and not a real american with pride and courage, and add in that you know nothing about the Constitution or the rights of THE PEOPLE.

Sounds like another believer in Loose Change. If you dont like what the US is trying to do to protect its citizens, why dont you pick up and leave? Whats keeping you? Im sure theres a nice warm cave you can inhabit over in the Helman Province.

Hey gary,

You want to fight wars, and oppress people then you take your wife and take your kids and go LEAD THE CHARGE! tuff guy. You are fake American. You do not know what freedom is, and never will. I bet you belong to one of the political bull parties, that claim they speak for the people right?

NoLies01:

Freedom of speech is a good thing and is not threatened by your comments. The only threat I see is to common sense.

JM

You have neither!

Thanks for your wisdom and compliments. I am much smarter now.

I'm not here to teach the selfish or ignorant! So please do not thank me. Instead help yourself.

Ever heard of anger management classes? No lie, they work!

You're wrong, Mike. This is an industry. As the world goes broke, including the USA, these complexes(military, security and prison industrial complexes) must inject the fear factor, in order to get the continuation of funding off the backs of the economically enslaved. Don't you people see how ridiculous this story is?

Ok, you can take the next flight...ill take the one after that....why dont you get back to reading Loose Change.

Ok, you can take the next flight...ill take the one after that....why dont you get back to reading Loose Change.

Seem to me that guy cant come up with something new!

And what does that have to do with the topic at hand?